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So... this would obviously cost a ton of money initially, but long-term, I believe the savings both environmentally and financially would be returned many times over.

If a building can already be made to reach the clouds (as below), and that is a tall, slim building, then it would theoretically be possible to do the same thing but with a huge, wide building (i.e. an airport). Now, I'm not saying it could reach 30,000ft (or could it?!), but even if an airport could be built (complete with runway) at 10,000ft, the massive savings in takeoff would be returned on the initial outlay.

Aircraft would simply roll off the runway and would already be at cruise, or only have a small, gentle climb to cruise. It would probably look like an aircraft carrier, just... really high.

Passengers, staff and parts could all be transported up and down via elevators (yes, they would need oxygen masks between the airport and the aircraft and the airport would need its own oxygen supply and pressurization).

Is this possible? If yes, why hasn't it been done?

Building into the clouds

Cloud
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  • You also haven't considered how to get people on/off the plane - depressurizing the plane will create significant problems of its own. – Eugene Styer Aug 21 '19 at 16:40
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    I'm good reopening this. While the proposal is wildly unrealistic (even at 10k, let alone 30k), the reasons why it is are a good discussion that touches at least as much on aviation as on Civil Engineering. You can still have good discussions about how "this" is an unworkable plan; I think this question is better than it's getting credit for. – Ralph J Aug 21 '19 at 17:57
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    @RalphJ But this stack isnt about civil engineering. Even civil engineering for airports isnt really about aviation. We have a list of topics in the [help] which I'm open to changing but perhaps this is a better discussion for a meta post than the comments under a question. – Jamiec Aug 22 '19 at 07:54
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    @Jamiec Also, when a question has +11 votes on answers, it implies people were interested in reading the answers, which would not have been possible without the question. – Cloud Aug 22 '19 at 09:28
  • @Cloud lots of votes on questions/answers which are a bad fit for the site (IMO, like this one) usually means its made it to HNQ, and answers have received drive-by votes from well meaning visitors, but ones who are not up on our on-topic-ness. – Jamiec Aug 22 '19 at 09:38
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    In actual fact this question hasn't made it to HNQ, but as has been explained to you in the past @Cloud, an answer can be good (upvoted) even on a poor question (downvoted). – Jamiec Aug 22 '19 at 10:09
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    @Jamiec My point was that this question *is* sufficiently about aviation to be worthwhile: why aren't high runways a thing? (Clearly, they aren't - nobody has built them as described, but *why* aren't the advantages of being immediately at higher altitude persuasive?) Sure, there are C.E. aspects (and Physics, and probably others too) to the question, and some answers, but at heart I see it as being about aviation & why things are "this" way rather than "that" way. JM2C, and I'm good with letting the voting process work. – Ralph J Aug 22 '19 at 15:33
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    If this question stuck to the aviation aspect of the effect of take off and landing at high altitude I'd back reopening it. But it asks all kinds of other non-aviation related things (such as economics, civil engineering, passenger-side etc). – Jamiec Aug 22 '19 at 15:39
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    "I think this question is better than it's getting credit for." I couldn't disagree more. Not to be rude to the OP, but I personally think this rates in top of the worst ideas category. Airplanes experience greatly degraded takeoff performance at high elevation airports in the 5-10K' range, I can't hardly imagine how long the take-off roll would be at 30K'. Discounting entirely the pressure and temperature issues, transporting pax, and other things mentioned, just how would you even build an Everest high field with miles and miles of runway that can stand 120mph winds? What material?! – Michael Hall Aug 22 '19 at 21:45
  • @MichaelHall Why would you need lift to takeoff? You're 30,00 feet in the air. Simply roll off the runway (in a stall condition) and use a few thousand feet to recover and gain airspeed. Landing would still need to be at high speeds, but takeoffs could be the same as ground takeoffs, speed-wise. – Cloud Aug 23 '19 at 09:31
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    While this isn't a good question, it can be edited to be aviation-related. Just remove the building problem part, and assume it's a given. – Therac Aug 23 '19 at 13:50
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    I think this is a good question! Imaginative and worth the time to answer. Sorry they downvoted you. – Justintimeforfun Oct 05 '20 at 19:47
  • @Justintimeforfun Thanks! That's why I have stopped using all SE sites. Bad environment, negative attitude of moderators, etc. – Cloud Oct 06 '20 at 13:45
  • @Cloud no room for dreamers with our unanswerable questions. Don't give up. Is there another Q and A place like SE? – Justintimeforfun Oct 07 '20 at 10:43
  • @Cloud Also, I made a few changes. Building a runway would be possible on a land at 30,000 ft. – Justintimeforfun Oct 07 '20 at 10:55

3 Answers3

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The Burj Khalifa in Dubai is currently the tallest building in the world. It is 828m (2717ft) tall and cost about 1.5 billion US dollars to build. Putting all technical and logistical difficulties aside, let us assume one can build a similar structure to 10,000ft, so about a factor 4 taller. Since building cost probably scales with volume, this would make our new building considerably more expensive:

$$ 4^3 \times \$1.5 \, \mathrm{billion} = \$96 \, \mathrm{billion} $$

And that is just one small tip at 10,000ft. A whole runway would require a much larger structure. The runway itself would have to be considerably longer at these altitudes, because the air is thinner. This would easily put the total cost in the trillion dollar range.

How much fuel is actually saved by this? This answer says a Boeing 737-800 requires about 2300kg of fuel for takeoff and climb. Even a very generous assumption of saving 2t of fuel per takeoff from this airport would only save $1200 at current jet fuel prices per takeoff. London Heathrow had about 475000 movements in 2018 (takeoffs and landings). Assuming similar traffic, it would take

$$ \frac{\$1 \, \mathrm{trillion}}{\$1200} \times \frac{2 \, \mathrm{yr}}{475 \, 000} \approx 3500 \, \mathrm{yr} $$

to pay for the investment (and this is a very generous calculation).

Going to 30,000ft would make this even more expensive by at least a factor $ 3^3 = 27 $.

Bianfable
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  • Plus certification cost, as aircraft are normally only certified for takeoff up to 8000ft or so, depending on specs, so each aircraft type requires (re-)certification for this single/unique „air“-port... – Cpt Reynolds Aug 29 '19 at 21:11
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How long would it take to recoup the billions (tens of billions?) of dollars it would cost to build a tower even as little as 10,000 feet high? Millions of flights, if it saves a thousand dollars per flight -- and I strongly doubt the saving would be anything like that large.

Worse, if you could build to 30,000 feet (and for a tower a couple miles long, I don't doubt it's possible) passengers wouldn't just need oxygen masks to get from terminal to aircraft, they'd need a pressurized boarding ramp. Apron personnel would need full pressure suits, tugs and luggage tractors would need a complete redesign -- and operating costs of the terminals would likely increase by much more than the saving in fuel (not to mention the runway would have to be much longer, as stall speed at 30,000 is significantly higher -- in ground speed -- than near sea level.

Generally, airports are better near sea level, because the higher the altitude of the field, the faster the aircraft have to land, the longer it takes (in time, and moreso in distance) to accelerate to the increased rotation speed. Far from saving money, flying out of, say Denver as opposed to, say Miami costs more -- because the runways have to be longer (and if it's hot in Denver, they need to be longer yet).

tl;dr Being able to lift off slow and land slow are more important that the small saving in climbing through 10,000.

Zeiss Ikon
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  • Why would you need lift to takeoff? You're 30,00 feet in the air. Simply roll off the runway (in a stall condition) and use a few thousand feet to recover and gain airspeed. Landing would still need to be at high speeds, but takeoffs could be the same as ground takeoffs, speed-wise. – Cloud Aug 22 '19 at 14:08
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    @Cloud Oh, that's going to go over well with passengers right after they see apron crew working in pressure suits. "But your tickets are almost three dollars cheaper if you fly from Superhigh!" – Zeiss Ikon Aug 22 '19 at 14:22
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    For that matter, can you even start a high-bypass turbofan at 30,000 feet and -20 C? – Zeiss Ikon Aug 22 '19 at 14:23
  • If you couldn't, what would be the point in engine restart checklists? (Which are run through at cruise, if that's when an engine fails) – Cloud Aug 22 '19 at 17:18
  • @Cloud That's a hot engine that's been shut down for no more than a few minutes after running at cruise power. Very different from starting an engine that's been sitting on the ground for an hour or more while you unload, load, and refuel the aircraft. – Zeiss Ikon Aug 22 '19 at 17:21
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    All passengers would also need to wear pressurised suits with individual oxygen tanks for takeoff and landing, in case there's a need to evacuate during takeoff/landing. – Gavin Coates Aug 29 '19 at 11:56
4

The potential for savings is not there.

Most of the fuel spent on climbing is not wasted. It's recouped back in the descent, which is performed at very low thrust. An aircraft's combination of kinetic and potential energy is a perfect energy storage system.

The only major losses of energy added by the climb-descent cycle are those from the added friction drag of passing through denser air. These are fairly small compared to the overall flight's fuel consumption.

Starting at 30,000 ft, you still have a takeoff to perform. The airplane will need to accelerate, to a higher velocity than normal, to stay in the air and be able to perform a go-around if necessary. At the end of the trip, the plane still needs to bleed airspeed, although less of it.

Meanwhile, there's lot of reasons not to place an airport at 30,000 ft. High altitude airports are much more dangerous compared to normal ones. High winds, high approach speeds, limited runway length combine to that. Part or all of the money saved in fuel would be compensated for by the losses from the increased crash rate.

To compensate for the increased stall speeds, high-altitude airports need longer runways than usual. The currently second-tallest airport also features the longest public runway in the world. High airports also place restrictions on takeoff mass, which means you'll sometimes have to use heavier aircraft at reduced load (e.g. A330 instead of A321) to meet your range and capacity requirements, which wastes much more fuel than low-altitude climb does.

So even if the height itself cost nothing, you wouldn't want to build your airport as high as possible. For a combination of safety, efficiency and cost reasons, you'd still want it on the ground. The extra energy cost from drag would be more than compensated for by the ability to take off at full weight, meaning that routes can be served by smaller, and often with reduced takeoff thrust.

About the only serious reason to place the airport very high would be for noise abatement.

Therac
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