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Would limiting the angle of attack to a maximum of 13 degrees by the fly by wire system help pilot gain advantage over his/her enemy during aerial one to one combat?

Jpe61
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George Geo
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    I cannot understand this question, please edit so that it becomes clear what the information you seek is. – Jpe61 Mar 26 '20 at 11:47
  • The headline kind of makes sense, the rest, not so much. – Jpe61 Mar 26 '20 at 11:48
  • I asked due to the fact that there is a decaying of the speed at higher AOA if the F16 pilot want preserve their speed to not go beyond this value of their AOA if must do ACM – George Geo Mar 26 '20 at 11:51
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    Ok. First: you are relying on people knowing what ACM/BFM is. If you just wrote "maneuvering", it would immediately be more obvious for anyone what this might be about. Second: the order in which you have placed the words it and is makes the sentences statements, not questions. I do realize english is not your native language, but this is a very basic thing. Third: what does 11/13 degrees mean? So basically you are stating here that AoA should be kept under 0.8461538462 degrees to minimize loss of speed. – Jpe61 Mar 26 '20 at 12:06
  • The AOA is the angle of attack (airflows which will meet the wing) The value I give is maximum 13 AOA not more than and speed about 400knots. – George Geo Mar 26 '20 at 12:13
  • @jpe I think he means 11 to 13 degrees, which would be better written as 11-13. He's talking about setting the fly-by-wire to avoid high angle of attack to limit induced drag, I think. – Zeiss Ikon Mar 26 '20 at 12:15
  • Zeiss Ikon Exactly what you said. – George Geo Mar 26 '20 at 12:16
  • It depends on what you are trying to do. I suggest researching energy-maneuverability theory. – Gerry Mar 26 '20 at 14:26
  • George, dog fights are about energy management, not necessarily AoA. Please read up on John Boyd's works regarding wing loading, Q, and energy management. – KorvinStarmast Mar 26 '20 at 14:53
  • Air to air combat is not about speed, you simply cannot outrun a modern missile. Not even the older ones... While it is true than maintaining speed = maintaining kinetic energy, to use speed as a winning advantage in aerial combat you would have to be stupid fast, like SR-71. Going that fast requires high altitude, and there you would definitely want to limit your AoA (load factor), IIRC limit for Blackbird was something like a deviation of a couple of degrees at cruise, so maneuverability no longer applies when using the outrun tactics. – Jpe61 Mar 26 '20 at 17:45
  • This is actually a seed of a good question because it brings out the basic strategies of aerial combat. I will try to rephrase it a bit later, so that it is clear, and portrays the problem George Geo is facing. – Jpe61 Mar 26 '20 at 18:19
  • @GeorgeGeo I rephrased the question, please check if it is ok for you. I also voted for reopening. – Jpe61 Mar 27 '20 at 23:22
  • Everyone knows that if you limit the angle-of-attack, you limit drag. The same lift for less drag sounds like a win-win. Yes the flight control programmers should it write it into the control law program that any desired lift vector should be generated at not more than 13 degrees angle-of-attack. (Translation: the question appears to have lost track of what variables are constrained by what other variables.) – quiet flyer Mar 28 '20 at 02:03
  • Or is the question simply whether limiting the aoa to a maximum of 13 degrees would be beneficial? – quiet flyer Mar 28 '20 at 02:11
  • On further reflection the question as currently stated seems clear enough. – quiet flyer Mar 28 '20 at 02:13
  • There is a real gain to increase the AOA at your discretion as a pilot at higher speed (because the drag will kill the speed) in dogfights? – George Geo Mar 28 '20 at 02:23
  • Up untill a certain AoA, lift increases, enabling faster turn rates. The ability to utilize max lift is a definite advantage in aerial combat. If your plane's AoA is limited, your enemy will very quickly outmaneuver you. And you will be shot down. – Jpe61 Mar 28 '20 at 12:15
  • related, if not dupplicate: Are fly-by-wire fighters protected in AoA? – Manu H Apr 04 '20 at 13:32
  • First of all, the F-16 flight control computer DOES limit AOA. But this is avoid loss of control due to exceeding Maximum Controllable AOA, not to prevent energy loss. The energy is there to ENABLE high AOA maneuvering when it is necessary by the pilot to either defend against a threat, or achieve a valid weapons employment solution. It would be foolish to stop the pilot from maneuvering hard enough to defeat an Air-to-air missile, just so he has more energy when he dies. – Charles Bretana Apr 24 '21 at 13:05
  • I removed the CAT 1 and CAT 3 part lately edited into the question. It had no connection to the original question. – Jpe61 Oct 27 '21 at 17:34

1 Answers1

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Of course not. The pilot needs to be able to command the maximum turn capability of the aircraft when it is necessary, for, among other things, to defend against a missile that has been launched at him/her, to maneuver the aircraft into a weapons launch envelope, or to slow the adversary line-of-sight-rate for a high angle-off (heading crossing angle) gun attack.

And, actually, The F-16 flight control computer DOES limit AOA. But this is avoid loss of control due to exceeding Maximum Controllable AOA, not to prevent energy loss. The energy is there to ENABLE high AOA maneuvering when it is necessary by the pilot to either defend against a threat, or achieve a valid weapons employment solution. It would be foolish to stop the pilot from maneuvering hard enough to defeat an Air-to-Air missile, just so he has more energy when he dies.

Charles Bretana
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  • I feel like I have the right answer. This will not be possible because the deployment of the elevators is not the same at lower altitudes as the highest level of service celling.The rarefied air need more deflected control surface to have a better answer to the pilot maneuvers – George Geo Mar 28 '20 at 18:53