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According to 14 CFR 61.57, "no person may act as PIC of an aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning one hour after sunset and ending one hour before sunrise as published in the American Air Almanac unless, within the preceding 90 days, they have made at least 3 takeoffs and landings to a full stop during that period."

But the definition of nighttime is "the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight." (CFR 1.1)

So, when exactly does a student pilot for a PPL complete their night time landings? Do I go off of one hour after sunset time or "official nighttime" time?

Roger Lipscombe
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Jonathan
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  • The private pilot night requirements are in 61.109, so you should check there rather than 61.57. Although it’s definitely good to know what 61.57 says because that could easily come up during your checkride. – Pondlife Dec 21 '21 at 20:52
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    @Pondlife: the answer in your first comment makes the OP's question almost a duplicate. The missing part seems to be the absence of a specific reference to takeoff and landings (10) that are required for the PPL. The inference is there in the answer you reference but it's not directly addressed. The takeoffs and landings are the central question this OP is asking. –  Dec 22 '21 at 00:47
  • For PPL training if you do your "night" t/o & landings at or just after civil twilight, but before 1 hour after sunset (for example) you will meet the 61.109 requirements but may not meet the 61.57 requirements. The first paragraph of your answer below (with the charts) suggests that time period for counting the takeoffs and landings for 61.109 purposes and 61.57 purposes are the same (which they aren't). Excellent info in the charts below, but 61.109 and 61.57 regulatory takeoff and landing time periods are different. –  Dec 22 '21 at 16:28
  • @757toga The reason I think it's a dupe is that the currently accepted (and very good) answer to the linked question covers "Aeronautical Experience Requirement". That's exactly what 61.109 is, and what I understand the OP is asking about. 61.57 doesn't apply to student pilots because they can't carry passengers, although it does become relevant as soon as they become private pilots and it is important to know about. As you said too, the OP shouldn't apply the 61.57 wording to 61.109. – Pondlife Dec 22 '21 at 20:28
  • @Pondlife: No disagreement on my part. But, reading the first paragraph of the OP's answer (to his own question) he (and at least 8 others) believe that the PPL night lndgs have to be done no earlier than 1 hour after sunset instead of at/after twilight. I imagine that he probably still believes this even in your earlier (now deleted comment) you reference the other question. It's less clear from the answer to the other question that the 61.109 landings are referenced to twilight. A careful reading shows that but I don't think the OP gets that. It's important he gets a correct understanding. –  Dec 22 '21 at 21:20
  • @757toga Totally agree, and that's why I upvoted your answer and downvoted the OP's self-answer :) The OP and others may not see or agree with the distinction that you and I are both making, and I guess that's just how it works out sometimes on StackExchange. – Pondlife Dec 22 '21 at 21:27
  • @Pondlife: Thanks, I totally understand –  Dec 22 '21 at 21:38

2 Answers2

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In my opinion, you should use the FAR 1.1 definition of night time when meeting the requirements of FAR 61.109 (a) (2) for your PPL.

Then use FAR 61.57 (b)(1) when meeting the requirements to carry passengers (1 hour after sunset to 1 hour before sunrise as published in the Air Almanac).

Keep in mind that the required FAR 61.109 (a)(2)(ii) 10 takeoff and landings are to be done in accordance with the night definition contained in FAR 1.1., not in accordance with the 61.57 night takeoff and landing experience requirements to carry passengers (to be done 1 hour after sunset to 1 hour before sunrise as published in the Air Almanac).

These two separate regulations should not be conflated. When satisfying each regulation a night time takeoff and landing (per FAR 1.1 definition) for 61.109 is different than the takeoff and landing requirement in 61.57, which is 1 hour after sunset to 1 hour before sunrise. These two different regulations are met only within the meaning of each separate paragraph (61.109 and 61.57).

Importantly, For PPL training if you do your "night" takeoffs and landings at or just after civil twilight, but before 1 hour after sunset (for example) you will meet the 61.109 requirements but may not meet the 61.57 requirements.

Of course, effective timing of your flight time and takeoffs/landings can be done so as to meet both 61.109 (a)(2)(ii) and 61.57 simultaneously.

  • Students can’t carry passengers, so 61.57 is moot. But the darker the night, the more valuable the learning. – StephenS Dec 24 '21 at 13:20
  • @StephenS: of course students can't carry passengers. But since the OP was associating the 61.57 (1 hour after sunset etc.) passenger carrying requirements in his question with the 61.109 night t/o & lndgs requirement (and misunderstanding the diffence) it was important to address that in my answer. Also, if the student did 3 full stop t/o & ldgs (1 hr after sunset etc.) he would meet 61.57 requirements for 90 days. If he got the PPL 30 days later 61.57 pic passenger currency would last for 60 more days. 61.57 then probably relevant. –  Dec 24 '21 at 15:06
  • If he had a night solo endorsement, sure. My understanding is that non-PIC landings don’t count for currency. – StephenS Dec 24 '21 at 15:55
  • @StephenS: 61.57 says "sole manipulator of the flight controls." If the student did his takeoff and landings (at least 3 to a full stop) during 1 hour after sunset and 1 hour before sunrise as "sole manipulator..." he would meet the 61.57 requirements. Why not? The very day you get your private license you can carry passengers and as long as you have met the 61.57 requirements for carrying passengers at night within the preceding 90 days nothing in the regulations precludes this. Where did you get your understanding that "non-PIC" landings don't count? Maybe I can learn something. Thanks –  Dec 24 '21 at 16:10
  • From my school’s Chief CFI, plus ForeFlight’s logbook. Both could be wrong, of course; I don’t see it in the regs either. Few students get a night solo endorsement, so it’s not a widely understood topic. – StephenS Dec 24 '21 at 16:21
  • @StephenS: I'm not talking about a requirement to obtain 61.57 night pax carrying qualification (using a student night endorsement- being a student PIC). The 61.57 reg only requires the "person" (no reference to being the holder of a PPL, COMM, etc.) to have done 3 t/o & lndgs (to a full stop) as "sole manipulator of the fight controls" (which can be a student with a CFI on board). Adding additional requirements to a regulation (61.57) where they are not specified in the actual wording of that reg makes compliance difficult. Outside of a legal interpretation the reg says what it says. –  Dec 24 '21 at 16:42
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I figured it out actually. Night time flying hours can be logged between evening and morning civil twilights. However, the takeoffs/landings must be between one hour after sunset and one hour before sunrise.

This site makes it clear: https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/regulations/logging-night-time-and-night-landings-explained-2021/

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Jonathan
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    This is a good answer, and would be worth migrating to the duplicated question if this one gets closed-as-duplicate. – Ralph J Dec 21 '21 at 23:09
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    For PPL tng if you do your "night" t/o & landings at or just after civil twilight, but before 1 hour after sunset (for example) you will meet the 61.109 requirements but may not meet the 61.57 requirements. The first paragraph of your answer above suggests that time period for counting the takeoffs and landings for 61.109 purposes and 61.57 purposes are the same (which they aren't). Excellent info in the charts above, but 61.109 and 61.57 regulatory takeoff and landing time periods are different. –  Dec 22 '21 at 16:23