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Is there an observed (direct not indirect) speciation on record showing a species shift within the span of history of recorded science?

randomblink
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    I think this post may interest you. It is maybe even a duplicate. – Remi.b Jun 30 '14 at 21:27
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    a simple google search would have provided this page showing examples of speciation, even artificial ones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation) – Behzad Rowshanravan Jun 30 '14 at 21:55
  • I'm looking for something more along the lines of a fruit fly evolving into a june bug or an ape evolving into a human. Obviously those examples are ridiculous, but they explain my point. I'm looking for something where one kind becomes another... and I hate using that word... – randomblink Jul 01 '14 at 20:08
  • I should add that I don't expect to find anything like this, but I figured this would be the place to ask. – randomblink Jul 01 '14 at 20:35
  • Darwin in origin of the species makes several examples from live stock and pets. During his time creationists argued that all (or many) of the different dog breeds came from different origins, each of which was created separately by god. Darwin makes good arguments for conversion by man, your modern creationist is unlikely to argue the multiple dog origin in light of modern science. The lesson here is that, your creationist, has been fed, a hand picked question that can not be satisfied, and when it can they will pick a new question. – James Jenkins Jul 02 '14 at 03:36
  • Rebuttal question "Show us documented proof where the amputee has their limb instantaneously restored" – James Jenkins Jul 04 '14 at 16:00
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    This question seems to involve an attempt to respond to ID rhetoric. Instead of asking a precise but open-minded question OP is asking for an example of something that may not be directly observable. This site wastes too much time (IMO) responding to faux-naif questions from evolution deniers masquerading as open-minded middlemen. There are plenty of these questions in the record and on the net. This is not the forum for them even if the OP is in fact well-intentioned. – daniel Jul 08 '14 at 00:31
  • As much as I can agree with what you are saying daniel, I am asking because I had hopes that someone WOULD have an answer. I have already answered my debater with this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S5tX2H4J4hR41mD7-oT5qw3o9cq46u6ipgV2SQFeJS4/edit?usp=sharing – randomblink Jul 10 '14 at 22:47
  • So to sum it all up, the question still stands. My reason being that surely someone has either an example that I can use to both answer and respond to these types of questions as well as something that will educate me. I TOTALLY get that ID rhetoric is a huge problem for the scientific community. But just ignoring it won't make it go away... it makes them think they have valid questions. Then they go and get valid lawmakers to support them... ugh – randomblink Jul 10 '14 at 22:48
  • How on earth is this 'off topic'???? I am asking for biology-based evidence of speciation. I didn't realize that my REASONS for asking a question would matter one whit. This is fairly ridiculous and casts quite a pall over all other questions that anyone can ask on these boards as far as I am concerned. I thought that the clarify, simplicity, and reasoning behind my question followed ALL of the 'scope' requirements of this board. There wasn't a drop of philosophical or any other non-biology related characteristics to my question. Simple biology 101. Someone needs to re-review this hold. – randomblink Jul 11 '14 at 19:36
  • ID proponents' belief that their questions are valid is not a reason to entertain them here. You are not asking for evidence of speciation, you are asking for "fruit fly to june bug" speciation. You can raise the issue at the Meta site. I don't expect in my lifetime to see fruit flies turning into june bugs. – daniel Jul 11 '14 at 20:14
  • Fair enough. THAT makes more sense than the blanket hold with standard answer. Thanks @daniel – randomblink Jul 11 '14 at 20:46
  • But I do think Remi.b's comment is responsive to this question. Also you should post a question on Meta so we don't drag this out here. – daniel Jul 11 '14 at 20:57
  • Hi @randomblink. Please note that your question was put on hold by the community and up till now has had no moderator intervention. Privileges are earned by the amount of reputation a user has on the site, which is a indicator of how trusted that user is. In this this way, it is the community that determines the scope of the site. I can see that you have made efforts to improve your question to get it out of the hold - can I ask why the first question linked to would not be a duplicate before I vote to reopen? At a glance it seems to provide you with an answer. – Rory M Jul 11 '14 at 22:43
  • @RoryM the reason that the question linked to would NOT be a duplicate because the questioner in that instance is referencing reproductive isolation as the definition of another species. This is something that fruit flies are famous for as well as several lizards and a few plants and bacteria. I am searching for a more pronounced evolutionary step whereby more than just reproductive isolation or minor coloration is the defining marker of speciation. I'm looking for a larger gap between the original species and the new one. – randomblink Jul 12 '14 at 00:34

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Could not fit in a comment…

What kind of observations will you accept to be an observation? If we can demonstrate showing genetic data that two current species where actually only one some time in the past would it represent an observation to you? Or does it has to be a lab experiment (experimental evolution)? Experimental evolution with big animals take much time, I am afraid we probably have no evidence (not counter-evidence) of a mammal species that evolve to be phenotypically speaking as different than a fruit fly and a june bug (example coming from your comment). Would you accept considering microorganisms (I have no example in head though right now)?

As you noted yourself I think, it is difficult to know how different (phenotypically or genetically?) should two sister populations (populations who derived from a common ancestral population) be so that you would consider that one of these populations at least evolved into another "kind" (compare to the ancestral population).

Remi.b
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  • I 'knew' that there would not be an answer that would give me what I wanted after 'thorough' online searches. But I had hope that someone would have an obscure link that Google had missed. The level of evolutionary steps I was searching for are just not going to happen within the tiny historical steps as little as decades or even millenia. I was being WAY too optimistic. – randomblink Jul 11 '14 at 20:51
  • but I had to try! – randomblink Jul 11 '14 at 20:51
  • Good to try $\ddot \smile$ Hope you agree that you have to decide 1) what you will accept as being an observation (Not all methods of observation in science are easy to understand for non literate) and 2) what kind of differences you are interested in. – Remi.b Jul 11 '14 at 22:14