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I have an old 20A GFCI in my basement (connected to multiple loads) for outdoor XMAS lights. Today I replaced it with a Leviton 20A GFWT2-KW.

BEFORE replacing:

  1. Always tripping, especially during rain/snow
  2. no ground wire in the box
  3. Receptacle Tester says OPEN GROUND

AFTER replacing:

  1. no ground wire in the box
  2. Receptacle Tester says CORRECT WIRING

How can this be and how can this be safe?

OLD
before

New
after

EDIT: With all the responses about being connected to the panel I have added a higherlevel view of my setup.

enter image description here

Marinaio
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    If you remove the receptacle from the box and plug your tester into it while it's hanging free, does it still say "correct wiring", or does that change it to "open ground"? – brhans Dec 08 '22 at 15:52
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    Being a metal box, are you sure it's not grounded somewhere? It's appears to be mechanically connected to the panel via a metal adapter. Since the panel case is grounded the box is also grounded. when you attach the GFCI outlet to the box, it's also grounded. – jwh20 Dec 08 '22 at 15:53
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    @jwh20 Yes, it is 1" away from the panel and connected with a metal conduit. – Marinaio Dec 08 '22 at 15:58
  • @brhans It's back in place now. Don't really want to touch it again. The GFWT2-KW is supposed to not allow you to reset if it is wired incorrectly. just trying to understand why it's not grounded like others. i have a similar post about canless lights with no ground (https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/258826/should-i-ground-a-canless-recessed-led-light). I just don't see how that can be allowed. – Marinaio Dec 08 '22 at 16:01
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    That's a metal box connected with metal conduit to another metal box. Metal is conductive. And grounded - usually. – user253751 Dec 09 '22 at 20:48

5 Answers5

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Despite the name ground-fault, a GFCI does not actually care about, or use, the ground wire. In fact, GFCI can be added to totally ungrounded circuits in order to provide protection comparable to (in some ways better) that provided by grounding.

With metal conduit and a metal box, you don't need a separate ground wire - the conduit and box are a functional ground.

Since your GFCI/receptacle is installed in a metal box, it should pick up ground via the yoke and a 3-light tester should show a correctly grounded installation.

The previous GFCI may have had too much dirt, paint or (deliberate but stupid) separators between the yoke and the metal box. Or it is possible that, unlike better quality receptacles (which should include all GFCI/receptacles) it simply didn't have the yoke connected to the ground pin.

Your new setup and test results are correct and normal.

As far as:

Always tripping, especially during rain/snow

that is the GFCI doing its job. Rain and snow will cause ground faults on outside receptacles. The solution to that is not to replace the GFCI (though (a) that may have made sense here because of other issues and (b) lots of trips over time are a good reason to replace it to make sure it will work well) but to prevent rain and snow from getting into the circuit:

  • Make sure that there are no gaps around the wiring going to the outside receptacles.
  • If the outside receptacles are not weather-resistant, replace them with weather-resistant receptacles.
  • Add (or replace if cracked/broken) in-use covers to all outside receptacles.
manassehkatz-Moving 2 Codidact
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  • This appears to be indoors! So reason for constant trips in old outlet are not QUITE so easy to explain. As noted in this answer to my recent GFCI question, these things can be fickle. – jay613 Dec 08 '22 at 17:12
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    @jay613 The GFCI is indoors, as it should be. But OP stated: (connected to multiple loads) for outdoor XMAS lights. which means outdoors. – manassehkatz-Moving 2 Codidact Dec 08 '22 at 17:14
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    Ah yes, I missed that. Almost certainly the cause then .. and since OP just put in this new outlet, let's figure his lights are up but it hasn't rained yet. ..... Hey Marinaio if your new GFCI pops next time it rains on your Christmas lights please know ... it's just doing its job! Look for wet plugs/sockets and figure out how to make them not wet. Also for cracks and pinholes in the lighting wires. – jay613 Dec 08 '22 at 17:19
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You have a steel box there. Code requires all cables coming into a steel box attach their ground wires to the box, not the receptacle.

You are accustomed to plastic boxes, where running the ground wire to the box would be absolutely pointless and so it must necessarily come to the receptacle.

Note the hard flush metal on metal contact between box and mud ring. So the mud ring is thus grounded. You also see hard flush contact between mud ring and receptacle in your installation. That carries ground to the receptacle.

(though this GFCI can also pick up ground via the mounting screws, since it is identified as "self-grounding" - that's useful when drywall prevents the outlet from landing hard flush on the metal. Also, switches can use the mounting screws even if they are not labeled "self-grounding".)

However, I also see a metal conduit nipple connecting the box to the panel. Metal conduit which is not flexible provides a legit ground path. I use that exclusively, I own 10 colors of THHN wire (for circuit identification) and none of them are green.

Harper - Reinstate Monica
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7

Because I haven't seen it mentioned yet: the NEC explicitly allows a GFCI to not have a grouding conductor if it's replacing an old outlet that didn't already have one. It's also required to have a "no equipment ground" sticker, which usually comes in the GFCI box.

NEC 406.4(D)(2)(C)
A non-grounding type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding type receptacle(s) where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Grounding-type receptacles supplied through the ground fault circuit interrupter shall be marked "GFCI Protected" and "No Equipment Ground". An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected between the grounding type receptacles.

No equipment ground

(image source)

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    thank you for posting the NEC code section. For us DIYer, it nice to know the source of these comments. – Marinaio Dec 09 '22 at 18:16
  • One thing that always bugged me about no-equipment-ground receptacles is that so far as I can tell, if one has a device with an exposed grounded chassis plugged into one side, and a device plugged into the other side shorts hot to ground, a no-equipment-ground receptacle wouldn't drip until there's an outside ground path, meaning the exposed grounded chassis would be live until that happens. A GFCI may protect people from getting killed, but could still let through a rather nasty amount of current before it trips. – supercat Dec 11 '22 at 07:51
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Addressing two questions here:

  1. your comment that the outlet should not reset if it is "wired incorrectly"
  2. possible cause for no ground before replacement, that you should investigate

"Wired incorrectly" in that sense means only one thing, that the LINE and LOAD terminals are reversed. You do not appear to be using the load terminals, and if you did incorrectly use them to apply power, it would not reset.

The GFCI outlet does not NEED a ground connection. In fact, one common use of GFCI outlets is to add a margin of safety to a location where there is no ground available such as a very old junction box with a two-pin outlet. But in your location there IS ground available. Some appliances benefit from having it, they use it for noise reduction in electronics notably in audio equipment. Also, appliances with metal housings will be even safer with a GFCI that has a good ground, because if there is a short to the casing inside the appliance it will trip immediately rather than next time someone touches it.

Your old outlet may have shown no ground for many reasons related to itself or the way it was installed. It doesn't matter any more. But there are two things you should check for, that is, that the retaining nuts on the metal nipple connecting the two boxes are both tight, and that the grey paint beneath the nut inside the breaker panel was removed. It's possible the old GFCI did not show ground because that wasn't done properly, and since you now have an indication of that possibility you ought to check for it.

jay613
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If your box is connected to the panel by metal conduit, then the box is grounded. The receptacle likely is connecting to ground via its mounting to the box.

user28910
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