5

So I recently had high hats installed and afterwards I took a look at the electrician’s (butcher’s) work and this is what I see to my disbelief. My question is will those code compliant metal joist repair/notch repair plates that are sold online be enough to repair these? They are in a living room with a bedroom above it.

Also I had a local engineer take a look at the damage joists and he said they will work fine but I’m being over cautious as there’s kids upstairs so I figured I would see what people in here think who might have similar experiences with these situations or repair plates.

One (larger hole) is a double 2x8 and the other 2 are single 2x8’s. Span on the double 2x8’s is 16’ and holes are about 7’ from one end. Span on the single 2x4’s is 14’ and holes are about 4’ from one end.

Double 2x8 Single 2x8 Single 2x8

Thank you in advance,

Ziggy
  • 51
  • 1
  • 2
    My ele notched 6" out of 2x10 (9" true size) in the middle of an 18' span that were by modern code already over spanned on 5 joists - that needed repair! You holes don't look tidy but far from needing repair - that's good ! You had an engineer look at it and he said no repair - you want some internet diy people to reaffirm - here we are. – Fresh Codemonger May 04 '23 at 02:38
  • What kind of engineer looked at it? – mmathis May 04 '23 at 17:08
  • Beyond leaving a negative review on their Google entry, Yelp, or whatever, you probably don't have much else possible to do. It may technically be fine by code, but any electrician that ham-handed/inept isn't worth their rating. As a computer programmer, I do better DIY electrical runs than this person does. BTW, this is just one reason people should use licensed, bonded, and insured contractors, since someone with those qualifications are far less likely to do something like this. – computercarguy May 04 '23 at 17:40

1 Answers1

7

While that does look pretty bad, you may be OK. The key isn't looks. The key is:

  • How big are the holes (including multiple holes that sort of merge together) relative to the overall size of the joists?
  • How close are the holes to the edges of the joists?

Using this random Google result on the topic:

  • The maximum size of a hole is 1/3 the depth of the floor joist.

Which means the maximum hole sizes if perfectly centered are:

  • 2×6 (5-1/2") ~ 1-13/16"

  • 2×8 (7-1/4") ~ 2-3/8"

  • 2×10 (9-1/4") ~ 3-1/16"

  • 2×12 (11-1/4") = 3-3/4"

  • You can't put them any closer than 2" from the top or bottom edge of a joist.

(Which actually, as I measure things, means your true limit on 2x6 is 5.5" - (2" x2) = 1.5", not 1-13/16". But that's close enough.)

So measure top of joist to top of hole - you want at least 2". Measure bottom of joist to bottom of hole - you want at least 2". Measure total height of hole - you want to keep to 1/3 of the total joist. If all those are good then no reinforcements are needed. If they are not then some reinforcement is a good idea.

In my non-expert (and no specific measurements) opinion, I think you're fine as far as total hole size and while some of the holes are less than 2" from the edge, probably not enough to really be concerned, particularly as the holes are relatively small.

And your former electrician needs a better drill. I remember when my electrician came into my house around 20 years ago with a BIG drill and said he was here to make my house holey.

manassehkatz-Moving 2 Codidact
  • 115,769
  • 11
  • 130
  • 326
  • 2
    And, keep in mind that those recommendations for hole size and placement are very conservative, to allow for knots and other defects in the wood. So like manassehkatz... said, I think you're (OP) fine. – SteveSh May 03 '23 at 23:50
  • "You can't put them any closer than 2" from the top or bottom edge of a joist." certainly some of those holes are closed than 2" to the top or bottom. It wouldn't hurt to use one of those joist repair brackets, although another hole would be needed in the ceiling on each side of the joist. – Huesmann May 04 '23 at 14:51