Grounds twisted without wire nuts

Question

In my 1984 house, inside switch boxes, there are many instances where bare ground wires are twisted together without wire nuts. They are twisted really tightly about 4-5 turns.

It has almost certainly always been like this. The house was built by a reputable builder, who presumably used a proper electrician.

Is this per code?

The previous owner replaced a few switches with dimmers (didn't connect the ground). I am now replacing some of the dimmers with LED rated dimmers. This box is non-conductive.

I plan on adding a ground wire to the existing twist and adding a big wire nut. There are four 14 AWG wires in the twist, now there will be five.

Or, if that is too many for a wire nut, there is a second circuit in this 4-gang box. Can I use a ground from a different circuit? (only two wires in this twist)

Uh, can you post photos of the inside of the box please? I think that there are a couple issues here.... — ThreePhaseEel, May 15 '20 at 23:20
"*all* equipment grounding conductor(s) associated with *any* of those circuit conductors shall be connected within the box or to the box with devices suitable for the use in accordance with 250.8 and 250.148(A) through (E)." Ground wire from the junction box — Mazura, May 16 '20 at 00:16
IDEAL Electrical 30-690 Model 90 8-Port In-Sure Push-In Wire Connectors testequipmentdepot.com — Mazura, May 16 '20 at 00:20
Are the two sets of grounds pigtailed together? There's got to be a fill problem. — JACK, May 16 '20 at 00:30
@JACK - the two sets of grounds are not connected in the box, they are on separate circuits. I know this for sure since I had to turn off two breakers to get the power off in the box. — Mattman944, May 16 '20 at 00:39
All grounds need to be connected together, even from different circuits. Neutrals can't but grounds yes. — JACK, May 16 '20 at 00:42
No need to get your shorts in a twist. The ground wires are twisted enough already. — Hot Licks, Sep 07 '22 at 20:41
Having the grounds connected or not would not affect how many breakers you had to flip to kill the power. — Hot Licks, Sep 07 '22 at 20:42

NoSparksPlease · Accepted Answer · 2020-05-16T00:44:11.697

It's not a legal method now to not use a Listed connector, I don't know if it was ever technically legal, but the the NW US that was common practice back in that era.

Wire connectors have specific combinations that are Listed for it's use, but the normal colors represent trade norms. A yellow would be too small, a red would be fine, a tan which is between the two is normally Listed for 5 #14's, but the 4 wires being pretwisted increases their diameter, and you will likely struggle to get it to work properly.

All grounds are suppose to be bonded together, a typical large blue wingnut is only listed for up to 6 #12's or #14's, often you will find more than that jammed in, but the proper method is to jumper two smaller connectors together, or use a push in connector with enough ports. Using a push in connected with previously twisted and bent wires sometimes proves challenging. It might be best to use a red on the existing bundle with a pigtail to the second smaller bunch, and add your new ground wire there.

+1 for answering the title, the rest of the question is a dupe. — Mazura, May 16 '20 at 01:09

score 6 · Answer 2 · answered May 16 '20 at 00:58

There needs to be a connector there, tying all the ground wires together

Some electricians get into the lazy habit of simply twisting ground wires together and leaving them that way, with no wirenut, dead-end compression joint, or solder to hold them together. Unfortunately, this does not produce a solid electrical connection, as there are only a few actual contact points in the bundle with nothing to compress it together or fill the gaps, and thus may fail under an actual fault condition.

Furthermore, the installer that put this in apparently separated the ground wires out into two separate bundles. This violates NEC 250.148:

250.148 Continuity and Attachment of Equipment Grounding Conductors to Boxes. If circuit conductors are spliced within a box or terminated on equipment within or supported by a box, all equipment grounding conductor(s) associated with any of those circuit conductors shall be connected within the box or to the box with devices suitable for the use in accordance with 250.8 and 250.148(A) through (E).

As a result, this needs to be fixed. Thankfully, this isn't hard. Simply take an eight-port, push-in type wire connector, add your new grounding wire to it, and then untwist each equipment grounding wire from its existing bundle and push it into a hole on the connector. Once you're done, all the bare equipment grounding wires should be in the push-in connector, connected together.

score 1 · Answer 3 · answered Sep 07 '22 at 20:15

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A compression sleeve could also be used. You will have to pigtail a short peice of solid and connect it to strand wire of the dimmer/timer etc.

answered Sep 07 '22 at 20:15

Henry

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Compression sleeves are already mentioned in a previous answer. – JACK Sep 07 '22 at 20:34

score -2 · Answer 4 · answered Jul 25 '23 at 19:17

-2

https://www.graybar.com/secure-grip-wire-connector-green/p/26339645?pcode=26339645

HOLE ALLOWS BARE PASSAGE SO MULTIPLE WITHOUT ADDING ANY ADDITIONAL WIRE. 3#12 MORE IF #14 WIRE.

answered Jul 25 '23 at 19:17

PAT

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Any particular reason why you're shouting at us? It doesn't go over real well on this site. – JACK Jul 25 '23 at 19:53
As it’s currently written, your answer is unclear. Please [edit] to add additional details that will help others understand how this addresses the question asked. You can find more information on how to write good answers in the help center. – Community Jul 25 '23 at 20:38

Grounds twisted without wire nuts

4 Answers4

There needs to be a connector there, tying all the ground wires together