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I have a 100 amp main panel for my main house. I am building an all electric ADU for which I need 200 amp sub panel. The utility company says they can upgrade my supply to 200 or 400 amp only, and I need a separate meter for the ADU and main house. They asked me to find the panel that I need.

What type of wiring am I looking at? Any suggestion welcome.

FuzzyWuzzy
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  • 200 amps for an ADU?!?! Is that a McMansion Junior? Sorry, to be flippant but I cannot imagine a (typically 800 sft max) ADU needing 200 amps. – DoxyLover Aug 20 '23 at 23:51
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    it’s all electric- 1.5 ton heat pump and 20kw tankless heater, plus kitchen utils. I did some load calculation and it was coming to 150 amps, am I estimating too high? – FuzzyWuzzy Aug 20 '23 at 23:55
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    @FuzzyWuzzy is there a reason you're going electric tankless for the water heater? Also, who do you have for an electric utility? – ThreePhaseEel Aug 21 '23 at 00:09
  • Ok, it's the 20Kw tankless what was throwing me off. that's 80+ amps right there.. I live in a 2400 sft home with a 4 ton heat pump which runs well under 200 amps but we don't have a tankless. – DoxyLover Aug 21 '23 at 00:11
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    Tankless may not be the best choice for that structure, for just that peak-demand reason. – keshlam Aug 21 '23 at 00:47
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    @FuzzyWuzzy there is no way we can fully answer your question without knowing who your electric utility is (just to reinforce the importance of getting us an answer on that question) – ThreePhaseEel Aug 21 '23 at 01:18
  • Most likely the PoCo is telling you to get your own meter/main panel and they'll have a list of approved ones that you can choose from. I did a heavy up from 100A to 200A last fall and got a 15 page PDF from the PoCo that listed every possible meter/main that they would accept. You'll have to ask them for the list, then pick one/have your electrician pick one for you. Without knowing your PoCo, we can't answer that. – FreeMan Aug 21 '23 at 14:25
  • @FreeMan And sometimes it gets complicated. During the height of the pandemic/supply shortages, my electrician had a few heavy-ups to do (including mine) and meter boxes and meter/mains (some local jurisdictions here currently require a meter/main, some do not, or at least did not a year ago) and lots of other stuff was hard to get. So hard to get that at least one local utility (Pepco) allowed for a number of alternates that were not on their regular list. And even with that, my electrician was scavenging around to find which supplier had an extra box that was acceptable. – manassehkatz-Moving 2 Codidact Aug 21 '23 at 14:33
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    Fair point, @manassehkatz-Moving2Codidact, but supplies are generally available now, and it's still best to check with the PoCo. As noted, I had 15 pages of acceptable options. My electrician called his preferred supply house and had one in within 2-3 weeks about 1 year ago. Out of 15 pages, one would think something would be available in a reasonable time frame, and if not, then it's a discussion between the home owner, electrician & PoCo to get an alternative approved. – FreeMan Aug 21 '23 at 14:37
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    @FreeMan the utility is PGE (Norther Cal) , they have this requirement for separate meters, but they don't have any suggestion on panels that can meet my needs. – FuzzyWuzzy Aug 21 '23 at 18:44

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20kw tankless heater

Get rid of that! Electric tankless has some very limited applications. But this isn't one of them. Put in a 40 or 50 gallon tank and it will use (typically) 4500W. That's 22.5% of 20 kW! That will make all the difference in the world.

Just absolutely incredible. A 20kW tankless is more power than most Level 2 EVSE (a.k.a., home car chargers) - those typically max out at 48A (on a 60A breaker) = 12kW, which itself is about double what most people actually need.

Redo the load calculations based on tank instead of tankless. You may well find that you can fit both buildings into a single 200A service. Now they might still want you to have separate service if the ADU is a physically separate building. Or they might be fine with it all in one if the combined load calculation allows it.

manassehkatz-Moving 2 Codidact
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  • @manassehkatz-Moving2Codidact thanks for the suggestion, I am building an ADU, wont have space for a Tank water heater inside, not sure if one can install them outside. Yes, this tankless heater is adding the largest load, maybe I need to go with a smaller tankless water heater? any suggestion there is also welcome – FuzzyWuzzy Aug 21 '23 at 18:47
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    Don't go with a smaller tankless. Go with a tank. Yes, it is possible to put a tank outside - even if that costs a bit extra it is worth to avoid the extreme extra electric load. – manassehkatz-Moving 2 Codidact Aug 21 '23 at 19:47
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Two meters? No problem!

The good news is that the problem you're trying to solve has already been solved for you, as multi-pack metering systems for duplexes and small "plex" apartment buildings are widely available these days. In particular, assuming that your ADU is a detached structure and that your local Code authority is alright with existing grounds (i.e. some light fixture out in the middle of the yard) lighting staying on the existing house's panel, you can use any EUSERC-compliant two-meter pack that supports the loads you are working with.

That said, that tankless heater is really a drag

However, that 20kW tankless water heater you're proposing for the ADU is a bad plan, given that it's basically doubling your load calculation for a very marginal gain in usable space. Instead, I'd recommend using a "low boy" style tank water heater tucked into a cabinet space to at least be able to have a usable counter over it; there are also a few options out there that build the water heater into what's basically an appliance-shaped package, but those aren't as widely available as the more conventional "low boy" tanks are.

Putting this all together...

Once you jettison the tankless heater, then we can talk about service sizing, as you shouldn't have any difficulty getting the ADU onto a 100A service once the tankless goes bye-bye, and that means you can use a 2x125A meter-pack for this job. I'd recommend a Siemens WEP2211, but that's because it's inexpensive and not hard to find; most other manufacturers of multi-pack equipment should have something that fits the bill as well.

The other good news is that since PG&E considers a duplex to fall under single-family residential service rules other than the separate metering, you don't need to worry about having to deal with more than the standard 10,000A of fault current any off-the-shelf setup can handle. (If you did have to worry about that issue, you'd need to order special main breakers with a higher interrupting rating than the regular ones.)

(Image is from A.O. Smith's website, but that's not an endorsement of them in particular -- plenty of other manufacturers make lowboy electric tanks!)

low boy tanked water heater

ThreePhaseEel
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  • This is very helpful. I didn’t find any requirement for having a separate (from main house) water heater for ADU. It’s more of a nice to have incase the ADU is rented. I might just revise the plan to connect my existing water heater for the ADU. – FuzzyWuzzy Aug 25 '23 at 18:04
  • @FuzzyWuzzy -- the standby losses from a hot water line run outdoors for a significant distance are...not going to be fun, even in a mild climate like yours – ThreePhaseEel Aug 26 '23 at 04:58
  • agreed, but mine is an attached ADU. So pipes need not travel outside for much – FuzzyWuzzy Sep 19 '23 at 05:43
  • @FuzzyWuzzy yeah, for an attached ADU, not having a separate HWH isn't the end of the world, just a nuisance from a landlording standpoint – ThreePhaseEel Sep 19 '23 at 11:39
  • Downvoter please explain? – ThreePhaseEel Oct 28 '23 at 19:49