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I just came across "ich schnippte einen Flusen von meiner Bluse" in a novel. As Flusen is plural and in the accusative I'm guessing einen here means some or a few, possibly a colloquial expression?

But I thought ein could only be singular, and anyhow taking keine as a model it would be eine?

info: The novel is "Männer und andere Ballaststoffe" by Isabella Rau, I think it's set in Southern Germany, modern with lots of colloquial expressions

Arsak
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David V
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    I know Flusen both as singular and plural of the word, although Duden only lists Fluse as singular. – infinitezero Dec 16 '20 at 17:30
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    Thanks, I didn't find Flusen in any dictionary - is it masculine? Then I would understand the grammar - hurrah! – David V Dec 16 '20 at 17:37
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    That's how I know it, as a native speaker. – infinitezero Dec 16 '20 at 17:41
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    I also thought the singular is Flusen. Learned something today :) – choXer Dec 16 '20 at 18:02
  • Topics dealing with similar doublets: https://german.stackexchange.com/questions/23709/other-words-like-die-socke-der-socken https://german.stackexchange.com/questions/44661/bedeutungsunterschied-die-karre-der-karren/44701#44701 – David Vogt Dec 16 '20 at 18:11
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    @infinitezero Since the standard dictionaries (duden, dwds, wiktionary) only list die Fluse and not der Flusen I'd not close this question. It deserves an explanation on the colloquial/regional/... (?) use of *der Flusen", imho. – Arsak Dec 16 '20 at 18:44
  • @DavidV since we are suspecting regional differences in the use, could you please add the name of the author or that novel? – Arsak Dec 16 '20 at 21:01
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    The novel is "Männer und andere Ballaststoffe" by Isabella Rau, I think it's set in Southern Germany, modern with lots of colloquial expressions – David V Dec 16 '20 at 21:32
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    In Bayern sagt man auch "die Kapuzn" (Einz.), allerdings ohne Geschlechtsumwandlung zum Maskulinum. Von Hatzius ("Die Echse") gibt es dazu auch einen Gag, den ich aber bei YT leider nicht finden konnte. Schlechte Verschlagwortung. Aber siehe auch "Eine Watschn", "Die Wiesn" usw. - vielleicht müsste "ein Flusn" auch ohne e geschrieben werden. – user unknown Dec 16 '20 at 22:51
  • @userunknown: Im Gegensatz zu den anderen von dir genannten Beispielen scheint aber "der Flusen" keine keine bairische Eigenheit, sondern auch hier im schwäbischsprachigen Südwesten (mit der Aussprache "dr Flusa") gebräuchlich. – O. R. Mapper Dec 17 '20 at 11:42
  • @O.R.Mapper "dr Flusa" könnte auch für "der Fluse" stehen, was eine weitere Variante wäre. – Paul Frost Dec 17 '20 at 13:47
  • @PaulFrost: Möglicherweise, auch wenn ich vermuten würde, dass das dann eher zu "dr Flus" verkürzt würde. – O. R. Mapper Dec 18 '20 at 10:44
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    @userunknown Good observation. But it does not really explain "einen Flusen von meiner Bluse". In Bavarian one would probably say "a Flus'n von moaner Blus'n", but the book does not use "Blusen". Therefore the transfer from dialect to "standard German" does not happen consistently. There are only a few examples like "Flusen" as Hubert Schölnast has shown. – Kritiker der Elche Dec 18 '20 at 10:56
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    Im Wikipediaartikel wird ausdrücklich erwähnt, dass "Wiesn" ohne Apostroph geschrieben werden muss, weil kein e unterschlagen wird, sondern dass das Wort "Wiesn" heißt. Ich habe dem geglaubt und bin geneigt, das auf die Flusn von Doana Blusn zu übertragen. – user unknown Dec 18 '20 at 16:35
  • @userunknown Okay, "a Flusn von moaner Blusn". – Kritiker der Elche Dec 18 '20 at 23:03

2 Answers2

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The word Fluse/Flusen is one of the words, that exists in two variations. Here are other examples:

The feminine form ends with -e and is standard German in all regions where German is spoken.

The masculine form ends with -en and is not so frequently used as the female form. The further you go to the south, the more often you will hear the masculine form.

  • Karre(n)
    In Duden the word »die Karre« is marked as besonders mitteldeutsch, norddeutsch, »der Karren« as besonders süddeutsch, österreichisch

  • Socke(n)
    In Duden »die Socke« has no regional marker, but »der Socken« is marked as süddeutsch, österreichisch, schweizerisch

  • Zacke(n), Scherbe(n)
    same status as Socke(n)

  • Schraube(n)
    In Duden »die Schraube« has no regional marker, and »der Schrauben« is not listed at all, but it exists in Bavarian dialects and many dialect speakers (like the owner of the Viennese tool shop) even use it when they try to produce standard German

  • Fluse(n)
    Here is the situation similar to Schraube(n): The masculine version exists in Bavarian dialects and is not part of standard German. But still some people use it in a standard German context.

The density of masculine variations of words that match this pattern, is very high in Vienna. Maybe it is high elsewhere too, but I lived in Vienna for many years (1997-2016), and still visit this city approximately twice a week to meet friends (except now, during the corona lockdown), so I know the language spoken in Vienna very well.

And guess who else lives in Vienna? It is Isabella Rau, the author of the sentence in question. I didn't read her book »Männer und andere Ballaststoffe« (»men and other fiber«, »men and other ballast materials«), so I don't know if she willingly uses a language that is close to the colloquial speech of Vienna, of if she just used the word because she is more used to the masculine form than to the standard feminine form.

Addendum

About »die Fluse« being a Low German word. (Reaction to comments)

People in Austria are much more exposed to variations of German spoken in northern regions of Germany than People from Germany are exposed to Austrian specialities. Austria has 8.9 million residents, Germany has 83 million. So, the market for books and magazines is dominated by speakers of German German. Even books and magazines produced in Austria are not published in Austrian German, but in German German (with some extremely rare exceptions for books, but not a single exception for magazines).

So, when you are in Vienna and buy and read a book or magazine, then you always will be exposed to the vocabulary that is in use in Germany, including vocabulary that has its origin in Low German. It never happens the other way round: When you are in Hamburg and buy any available book or magazine, you will never ever be exposed to Austrian vocabulary.

This means, that almost everybody in Austria is fluent in two variations of German: The Austrian variation that is used to talk with other Austrian people which is our first language, and the German variation, that we use when we write. And sometimes, without any intention, we use words from one of both variations when we produce sentences in the other variation.

So, using a word that comes from Low German in a standard German text produced by a native speaker of the Viennese dialect (which belongs to the Bavarian dialects) is not so strange as it might seem at first glance.

About »der Flusen« not being listed in any dictionaries:

You also will not find »der Schrauben« or »der Noppen« in any dictionary, but they are still used in real life. Not to be listed in a dictionary does not mean that the word doesn't exist. Most dialect words are not listed. For example the very common word rean is not listed in any dictionary because it is not standard German but Bavarian.

Hubert Schölnast
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    This is wrong, the Low German word Fluse does, as is confirmed by dictionaries, not belong to one of those doublett words. – Björn Friedrich Dec 16 '20 at 22:09
  • "der Flusen" is IMHO just as common in South-Western Germany where Swabian is spoken. – O. R. Mapper Dec 16 '20 at 22:45
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    Is there a dictionary for dialects that supports the usage of "der Flusen"? I'd say that would further improve this answer. – Arsak Dec 16 '20 at 22:59
  • @Arsak, my references to DWDS and Wiktionary are totally ignored here and my answer disproportionately downvoted. But a dialect dictionary would be acceptable? Sorry, but I am really annoyed by how this thread is developing. – Björn Friedrich Dec 16 '20 at 23:13
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    @BjörnFriedrich My conclusion so far is that 1) die Fluse has a Platt origin and is Standard German (thanks to your post) and 2) there seems to be a non-standard usage of der Flusen as well, apparently in southern dialects. I am asking for a dialect dictionary entry to back up the experience of several users. I wouldn't say your references are ignored. I assume, declaring der Flusen as plain wrong just because it's not standard German is too bold. – Arsak Dec 16 '20 at 23:28
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    I support the statement that "der Flusen" is a Bavarian / Austrian variant of "die Fluse". By the way, "ich schnippte eine Fluse von meiner Bluse" contains a rhyme - perhaps the author wanted to avoid that. – Paul Frost Dec 16 '20 at 23:53
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    @BjörnFriedrich: Bitte lies mein Addendum, dann sollte einiges klarer werden. Die Autorin des Satz lebt in Wien, daher ist es durchaus vernünftig, von einem Einfluss bairischer Dialekte auszugehen. – Hubert Schölnast Dec 17 '20 at 08:17
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    @Arsak: Dialektwörterbücher sind einerseits selten und andererseits selten in einer brauchbaren Qualität verfügbar. Für Dialektwörter, die in Österreich verwendet werden, gibt es https://www.ostarrichi.org/ . Dieses Wörterbuch wird aber von Internetusern befüllt. Dort findet man zwar den Schrauben, aber nicht den Noppen und auch nicht den Flusen. Warum das so ist, weiß ich nicht. ... – Hubert Schölnast Dec 17 '20 at 08:25
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    ...Ich kann nur vermuten, dass der Grund dafür ist, dass die Noppe und die Fluse hier in Österreich grundsätzlich als deutschländisch empfunden werden, und diese Empfindung auch für die jeweils männliche Variante gilt. Niemand empfindet diese Varianten als »typisch österreichisch«, und daher hat sie auch noch niemand eingetragen. – Hubert Schölnast Dec 17 '20 at 08:26
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    An interesting example for the same phenomenon is "die Krake" and "der Kraken". Duden says "Substantiv, maskulin, oder Substantiv, feminin". Writing "der Kraken" is certainly wrong, but it is done : Der Kraken wird zum Teil wie eine Riesenkrabbe beschrieben. See also [here](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riesenkraken_(Mythologie) : Oft wurde der Kraken mit anderen mythischen Seemonstern gleichgesetzt. "Kraken" is perhaps erroneously used because the English word is "kraken". – Paul Frost Dec 18 '20 at 11:06
  • Concerning Isabella Rau see here. – Paul Frost Dec 18 '20 at 11:16
  • Her true name is Isabella Straub and she is Austrian (born and grown up in Vienna). – Kritiker der Elche Dec 18 '20 at 11:21
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… ich schnippte einen Flusen von meiner Bluse …

This is a typo. Die Fluse, meaning lint or fluff, is a feminine word of Low German origin (see e.g., DWDS, Wiktionary). In conjunction with the indefinite article, the accusative (singular) form is eine Fluse:

… ich schnippte eine Fluse von meiner Bluse …

My ancestors have spoken the Low German dialect Platt, and I have never heard anybody use a masculine variant der Flusen or einen Flusen.

Björn Friedrich
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    Even though this may not be correct, many Germans (at least in my experience) still use "der Flusen". I have never heard "die Fluse". It may be that this is a regional difference. – choXer Dec 16 '20 at 19:14
  • I didn't mean to contradict you. "Der Flusen" is obviously wrong. I just wanted to note that - at least from my perspective - many (or better: some) German-speaking people would say it like in the quote from the OP. – choXer Dec 16 '20 at 19:29
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    I know both versions and was really surprised that only the female one is listed in the dictionaries. Maybe the genus and the ending were changed when more speakers without a Platt-background used the word. – Arsak Dec 16 '20 at 20:59
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    It is not a typo. It is a form that comes from Bavarian dialects. It is not standard German, but colloquial German in southern regions. – Hubert Schölnast Dec 16 '20 at 22:03
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    Schon interessant, wie irrelevant hier meine eigene Herkunft und Verweise auf Wörterbücher, die nichts anderes sagen, zu sein scheinen. Die Gemeinschaftsstandards von Stackexchange können ja dann in die Tonne. Frohe Weihnachten! – Björn Friedrich Dec 16 '20 at 22:07
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    @HubertSchölnast, wie kommen Sie jetzt auf Bairisch? Fluse ist ein niederdeutsches Wort. – Björn Friedrich Dec 16 '20 at 22:15
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    You are right, it is wrong, but it is not a typo. A typo has an unintentional character, but most likely the author wrote it as she was used to speak. I guess she is Austrian; see here "... Isabella Rau, die mit ihrem Sohn in Wien lebt". But at least she is accustomed to "österreichisch". And therefore Hubert Schölnast's explanation is sound: The OP will understand the reason for the use of "einen Flusen". – Paul Frost Dec 17 '20 at 00:14