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Looking at the translations of the English word "butterfly" (insect) on Wiktionary I was surprised to see it translated as Fleddermaus in Pennsylvania Dutch1. I would have expected something more like Schmetterling or Summervogel (with Fleddermaus instead meaning "bat" as in Standard German). Out of curiosity I checked the translation of the English "bat" (mammal) into Pennsylvania Dutch but none was given.

Is the translation of Fleddermaus as "butterfly" correct (for Pennsyslvania Dutch) and what is the word for "bat" in that dialect?

1 The following quotation is given as a usage example:

Un hie un do sehnt mer noch en Fleddermaus, as widder zu Gnaade kumme is.

Source: 2006, Deutsch-Pennsylvanischer Arbeitskreis (eds.), Mit Pennsylvaanisch-Deitsch darich's yaahr: A Pennsylvania German reader for grandparents and grandchildren, Tintenfaß (publ.), page 118.

Alex Hajnal
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  • Welcome to German.SE. I'm totally unaware of these abroad German(s). And no, the PD wiki was no help, too: https://pdc.wikipedia.org/wiki/English/Pennsylvania_German/High_German_dictionary (just surprised it has its own wiki^^) – Shegit Brahm Dec 16 '21 at 14:27
  • I doubt that "Fleddermaus" means "butterfly". But a definite answer can only be given by a speaker of Pennsylvania Dutch. – Paul Frost Dec 16 '21 at 19:42
  • @PaulFrost It could be that the meaning shifted over time. i.e. Maus taking on the meaning of "small animal" instead of "rodent". (I agree that only a PD speaker could give a definitive answer.) – Alex Hajnal Dec 17 '21 at 05:17
  • @AlexHajnal Sorry, I deleted my comment. It was, why does Pennsylvania German look like Dutch? I am German native speaker. The sentence you provided in your post is far away from German. I need quite a lot of fantasy to recognise its meaning: "Das sieht mehr nach einer Feldermaus aus, die wieder zu Gnade gekommen ist." – rexkogitans Dec 17 '21 at 11:42
  • @rexkogitans The "Dutch" in "Pennsylvania Dutch" is Deutsch (poorly) transliterated into English. In other words "Dutch" is how (American) English speakers (hundreds of years ago) spelled Deutsch. So here the word "Dutch" really means "German", not "Dutch". The sentence in my post is written in the Pennsylvania Dutch language which is a type of German spoken in parts of the state of Pennsylvania in the United States. It is also spoken in small parts of nearby states and in parts of Ontario in Canada. – Alex Hajnal Dec 17 '21 at 11:43
  • @AlexHajnal OTOH, I just translated this sentence using DeepL and saw I missed the meaning, and in Dutch it looks even more different. – rexkogitans Dec 17 '21 at 11:48
  • @rexkogitans It's actually pretty easy when you're familiar with "pfälzisch". The sentence is "und hier und da sieht man noch einen Schmetterling, der wieder zu Gnaden [im ursprünglichen Sinn des MA: Erholung, Bequemlichkeit] gekommen ist." – tofro Dec 17 '21 at 12:32
  • @Alex Hajnal: When the Pennsylvania Dutch arrived in America, Germany and Holland weren't countries yet, and "Dutch" was a generic term for anyone from central Europe who spoke some kind of Germanic language. It was a good name at the time, but since then the meaning of "Dutch" changed and the name "Pennsylvania Dutch" didn't, hence the confusion. – RDBury Dec 18 '21 at 13:27
  • @tofro: I render your Hochdeutsch version into English as "And here and there one still sees a butterfly, who has returned to grace". A couple of worries though: How do you get die from as? Also, the original kumme is does not look much like past tense, so how do you get gekommen ist? – RDBury Dec 18 '21 at 14:07
  • @RDBury It's a common trait of southern German dialects that they don't have a simple past - the only past tense they know is perfect tense. Yet another trait is that the past participle omits the "ge-" for many verbs. I'm pretty sure my translation is correct. – tofro Dec 18 '21 at 17:43
  • @tofro: Thanks. I'm sure you know your stuff; I was just curious why the second half of the sentence seems so different. In the first half you can match up the words with Hochdeutsch pretty easily, un = und, hie = hier, do = dort, etc. Not so much with the second half though. Apparently PD was not a written language until recently; people learned enough Hochdeutsch to read the Bible. The simple past is somewhat literary so it's not surprising that it would be lost. – RDBury Dec 18 '21 at 22:26

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We need to realize that Pennsylvania Dutch is a German (Palatian) dialect "frozen in time" - So we need to go back a few hundred years and see what your examples meant by then in German - Grimm's Wörterbuch says for "Fledermaus" (amongst several meanings, including "bat"):

unter fledermaus verstand und versteht man den schmetterling (flätterling) der abends in das licht fliegt: ër tuot mir als dër vlëdramûs daʒ lieht. MS. 1, 9ᵃ, wo die andre lesart gibt: dër viwerstëln (oben sp. 1441). im voc. ex quo heiszt es papilio ein zweifalter vel fleddermusche. Alberus hat zu fleddermaus auszer vespertilio auch: papilio, vermiculus alatus, hepiolus, quo nullum animal imbecillius est, fleddermaus odder zweifalter, fleugt ins liecht. noch heute sagen Pfälzer und Odenwälder für schmetterling fledermaus, für vespertilio speckmaus, weil sie an den speck in den schornsteinen gehn soll.

(Note the mention of Palatian, also note the "butterfly" meaning is rather a "moth" - Fledermaus seems to be exclusively used for insects flying at night)

Incidently, the Grimms also help us with "bat" (Latin vespertilio) - it's "Speckmaus" according to them in Palatian - and, also in PD which is backed by this

We simply need to accept that old German dialects weren't too picky with taxonomy: What flaps around in the dark is all the same ;)

tofro
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    That reminds me of ancient texts (Christian/Jewish ones come to mind) that call everything that swims a fish and everything that flies a bird. Perhaps likewise Maus can have a more flexible meaning? – Alex Hajnal Dec 17 '21 at 10:05
  • @AlexHajnal Maus is just a mouse, and yes, seems to stand for anything small and fluffy. And yes, language is not always biologically exact - see guinea pig, for example, in English. – tofro Dec 17 '21 at 10:23
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Not an answer, but some extended comments. I think I'm probably the only regular here who has even heard Pennsylvania Dutch spoken live. (Please let me know in the comments if I'm wrong about this.) It's not spoken in Europe, and in the US the speakers are generally members of somewhat insular religious communities, the Amish and Mennonites. Pennsylvania Dutch does sound like German (to an English speaker at least), but there enough differences that I doubt that a native German speaker would be able to understand much of it, though they might have a chance if they are familiar with the West Central German dialects used in the region from where the Pennsylvania Dutch orginally immigrated. Here are links to the English and German Wikipedia articles on Pennsylvania Dutch, and a link to the Pennsylvania Dutch Wikipedia with about 2000 articles.

This site is meant to cover German and its dialects, which I interpret to include the varieties listed here. But while questions about Pennsylvania Dutch may technically be on-topic for the site, it seems unlikely that you'll get a knowledgeable answer. (I think the same issue exists with Yiddish.)

In general, I wouldn't put a lot of trust in the translations sections of Wiktionary. But this same information is given in a main entry here, with a quotation: Un hie un do sehnt mer noch en Fleddermaus, as widder zu Gnaade kumme is. On the other hand, an on-line Deitsh-English dictionary here here gives the meaning as "bat". Since these sources seem to contradict each other, it comes down to either trusting one source more than the other or trying to find something more reliable. In any case, I have a feeling that you'll need to ask elsewhere for first-hand answers.

RDBury
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  • Thanks for your feedback. I knew it was a long-shot when I posted it but reckoned it wouldn't hurt to ask. I get the impression that PD might not be a homogeneous language but rather one with a lot of local dialects that sometimes use the same word to mean different (sometimes contradictory) things. Again, your answer is much appreciated! – Alex Hajnal Dec 17 '21 at 05:09
  • @Alex Hajnal: That's a good point; the Wikipedia article does mention some differences between PD in different regions, specifically a variety spoken Lancaster County. So it seems reasonable to assume that the same word could have different meanings according to region. – RDBury Dec 17 '21 at 05:28
  • I tend to challenge your initial claims of PD being hard to understand for Germans - It's actually relatively straightforward after some getting used to it, especially if you have some familiarity with southwest German dialects. The hardest part is filtering out the English accent and realizing what you hear is indeed German (I constantly got caught in trying to understand English words instead of German ones because of the melody). – tofro Dec 17 '21 at 08:34
  • @tofro: That fits with a video I found of a PD speaker telling about his travels through Germany. In some areas he could speak PD with no problems, in others, he had to switch to Hochdeutsch which he also knows. And yes, PD is heavily influenced by American English. (My impression is that people from the more isolated PD speaking communities speak with less of an American accent. It's hard to prove though; there aren't a lot of Mennonite YouTubers.) What did you make of the Fleddermaus example from Wiktionary? There's no translation given and I didn't even bother trying Google Translate. – RDBury Dec 17 '21 at 12:38
  • @rdbury For Fleddermaus see my answer. It actually used to stand for butterfly or, rather, moth in palatian dialect spoken in Germany. And yes, a PD-speaking person could still communicate in palatian dialect pretty easily, I guess. PD has, over the centuries, adopted quite a number of English terms that weren't present in their original language - An interesting example is "Grundsau" (groundhog) which is a direct re-translation into German where that word (for obvious reasons, there are no groundhogs in Palatia ;) ) simply doesn't exist. – tofro Dec 17 '21 at 12:45
  • Ignoring adopted English terms and the melody, you could say that for a native speaker from the SW, it's actually way easier to understand than some thick Swiss-German dialects or northern Platt, for example. – tofro Dec 17 '21 at 12:51
  • Relevant: https://german.stackexchange.com/q/30325/3237 – Carsten S Dec 17 '21 at 13:08
  • Funny digression: https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/27471/does-the-word-butterfly-stem-from-an-erroneous-transcription-of-flutterby. "Flutter" is similar as "Fleder" ;-) – Paul Frost Dec 20 '21 at 00:07
  • @Paul Frost: They don't mention the obvious connection between Schmetten = "cream" and "butter". The idea that witches turned themselves into insects to steal dairy products seems much more entertaining than some ancient spoonerism. The fact that the same idea is consistent with words in two languages also makes it more plausible as an etymology. – RDBury Dec 20 '21 at 01:56
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In Palatine German, from which Pennsylvania German is descended, Fledermaus signifies both butterfly and bat; see Pfälzisches Wörterbuch, PfWB: Fledermaus.

Note that the Pfälzisches Wörterbuch has made an effort to include Pennsylvania German. Quoting from the introduction:

Auch das Pennsylvanien-Pfälzische wurde, soweit es in gedruckten Quellen zu erfassen ist, in die Sammelarbeit einbezogen, indem die Wörterbücher von Horn [sic], Danner und Lambert sowie wissenschaftliche und schöngeistig-mundartliche Literatur der Pennsylvanier, die uns die Heimatstelle Pfalz unter Dr. Fritz Braun dankenswerterweise zur Verfügung stellte, für das Wörterbuch ausgeschrieben wurden.

The mentioned references are Horne's Pennsylvania German Manual and Lambert's A Dictionary of the Non-English Words of the Pennsylvania-German Dialect. Lambert is cited in PfWB: Fledermaus for the meaning butterfly (see also Lambert: fleddermaus), and Horne for bat. However, the dictionary editors must have made a mistake, as the quotation from Horne is actually about a butterfly:

Horne: Birdie Cries

De gal fled'r-mous kumt, / Un pikt 'm fĕgli de awgă rous.
The yellow butterfly comes, / And picks birdie's eyes out.

For bat, Horne has shbĕkmous (Horne: bat). This concurs with PfWB: Speckmaus (which has Lambert concurring, see Lambert: schpeckmaus).

Note that all of this does not exclude the possibility that Fledermaus, in Pennsylvania German, has the same ambiguity it has in Palatine German, i.e. it could theoretically still signify bat as well as butterfly.

David Vogt
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