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Consider the following line that I read on the rule board in a Swiss swimming pool

Nichtbefolgen der obengenannten Regeln führt zum umgehenden Verweis des Bades

I don't understand what this means, specifically I am confused by "Verweis des Bades" - sounds like something is going to happen to to the swimming pool if you don't comply?

cor-llsh
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  • It should also be clarified whether this is purely Swiss German or whether it would be found elsewhere, too. My German-German intuition doesn't particularly like this construction. – Alazon Sep 25 '23 at 13:40

5 Answers5

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Unfortunately the question did not provide much context.

We are dealing with meaning 2 of verweisen, see DWDS,

jemanden [accusative] eines Ortes [genitive] verweisen means to require somebody to leave a location.

This has an accusative and a genitive object. Since your sentence does only provide the genitive, the accusative has been left out, but it is clear that it is the person, which was supposed to obey the rules preceding the given sentence. (Another clarification: it is likely, that the whole site has to be left, not just the water.)

While the pool could theoretically be a genitive object similar to Schuld des Fahrers, there is simply no meaning available, which would make this a sensible sentence.

guidot
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verweisen here means to banish, with a genetive object - you are banished from the pool.

Zac67
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    I think this doesn't quite answer the question. "Verweis des Bades" could indeed be understood in such a way that the pool gets banished. – O. R. Mapper Sep 24 '23 at 19:20
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    @O.R.Mapper Only grammatically, not semantically. – Zac67 Sep 24 '23 at 19:54
  • So, what does the structurally equal sentence "Nichtbefolgen der obengenannten Regeln führt zum umgehenden Verweis des Bademeisters?" mean? Or is it invalid because with the single changed word, the semantics have become ambiguous? – O. R. Mapper Sep 24 '23 at 19:56
  • You mean "Verweis *durch den Bademeister" (reprimand by the attendant), don't you? "Verweis des Bademeisters" would be reprimand of the attendant. Note that that "Verweis" differs in meaning from the original quote. – Zac67 Sep 25 '23 at 07:09
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    No, I mean exactly "Verweis des Bademeisters". Your claim was that "Verweis des X" is acceptable if that X is the "Bad" because there is no semantical ambiguity. Hence, I presented a sentence with the same structure where there is a semantical ambiguity (does the Bademeister issue a Verweis, or is it the Bademeister that gets a Verweis, e.g. as a punishment for not effectively enforcing the rules?). – O. R. Mapper Sep 25 '23 at 07:31
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The phrase sounds funny if it is interpreted as parallel to most phrases that combine a deverbal noun and a genitive.

das ständige Verweisen der Kanzlerin auf eine europäische Lösung (Zeit, 20.1.2016)

der Verweis des Kindes von der Schule (DWDS Verweis 3b)

In the first example, the genitive corresponds to the subject of the verb verweisen, in the second to the accusative object.

However, the noun Verweis has a use that differs from those examples in that the genitive is interpreted as the location someone is expelled from. DWDS only has examples with prepositional phrases, which don't give rise to interpretation issues.

der Verweis aus dem Bad (DWDS Verweis 3d)

The fact that the genitive is possible seems idiosyncratic to Verweis. I don't think the genitive is inherited from jemanden eines Ortes verweisen; for instance, all examples I found for Verweisen plus genitive have the genitive corresponding to the subject of verweisen, not its genitive object.

Examples such as die Anklage des Mordes (which allow for a similar misinterpretation as Verweis des Bades) can be seen as explicative genitives (and therefore not related to the fact that the corresponding verb has a genitive object).

David Vogt
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Translation:

Nichtbefolgen der obengenannten Regeln führt zum umgehenden Verweis des Bades.
Failure to comply with the above rules will result in immediate expulsion from the spa.

This is really tricky, because the word »Verweis«, which looks like a normal noun together with an often seen genitive possessive attribute, is actually a nominalized verb that has no possessive attribute, but a genitive object.

German has a relativels small group of verbs, that need their object neither in dative nor in accusative case, but in genitive case. Here is a complete list of them: Verben mit Genitiv (Note, that many of these verbs are outdating or even outdated, and that some of them alternatively also accept other kinds of objects.)

The verb verweisen belongs to this group:

jemanden eines Ortes verweisen
to expel someone from a place

The place from where someone is expelled must be given in genitive case.

Declination of "a place" and "the spa":

Nom: ein Ort, das Bad
Gen: eines Ortes, des Bades
Dat: einem Ort, dem Bad
Acc: einen Ort, das Bad

The genitive case is rarely used for objects in German. Much more often, the genitive case is found as what is known in English as a possessive:

Der Bau des Bades dauerte 3 Jahre.
The construction of the spa lasted 3 years.

An alternate construction is possible in both languages:

Des Bades Bau dauerte 3 Jahre.
The spa's construction lasted 3 years.

In your sentence at first glance it looks as if the part in genitive case would be a possessive attribute:

der Verweis des Bades
(wrong!) the expulsion of the spa = the spa's expulsion

But in fact the noun Verweis is a nominalized verb and therefore it still can have a genitive object instead of a genitive attribute, and therefore this is correct:

der Verweis des Bades
(correct) the expulsion from the spa

Hubert Schölnast
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This sentence is a grammatical fail. Correct formulations would be

  1. Nichtbefolgen der obengenannten Regeln führt dazu, dass Sie umgehend des Bades verwiesen werden.

  2. Wer die obengenannten Regeln nicht befolgt, wird umgehend des Bades verwiesen.

  3. Personen, die obengenannten Regeln nicht befolgen, werden umgehend des Bades verwiesen.

  4. Nichtbefolgen der obengenannten Regeln hat die umgehende Verweisung aus dem Bad zur Folge.

Paul Frost
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