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I always thought of Aikido as a beautifully choreographed yoga/meditation rather than MA. Is it wrong to think that all this choreography fails in street fights or in MA? All the wrist manipulation which plays a dramatic role will only work on relaxed or unsuspecting target imo. This makes it obsolete versus a "ready to go" boxer or kick-boxer etc.

I have seen a video where an aikido practitioner tries to lock a student of MA with no luck, since the opponent was tense.

I have watched a 3 round fight with aikido practitioner vs a thai boxer, and after 2 rounds the aikido practitioner just resorted to open palm type strikes and "flailing jeet kune do type kicks" with no avail, instead of trying to catch/lock/throw his opponent.

I've been searching to no end for material or video where true aikido techniques are used in a full on sparring contest, to how it's shown to us during presentations.

So the question is : Is Aikido effective outside of the "Aikido realm"? (no hate, just my personal opinion and views)

ibimon
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    -1, vote to close. First, anecdotal evidence is utterly worthless so three examples of bad Aikido videos (with no references) mean nothing whatsoever. Second, your question reads like you have made up your mind and are just fishing for justifications. Thirdly, what is a "street fight"? A car full of gang bangers shooting automatic weapons while driving? A drunk guy in a bar thinking you called his pint ugly? – Sardathrion - against SE abuse Feb 09 '15 at 15:09
  • I am looking for answers, not justification. I would like somebody to debate my proposed assumption of what I have gathered over time on the subject of Aikido vs MA or in a street fight. You seemed to have jumped to conclusion a little to fast. Thinking before you engage is a good trait. – ibimon Feb 09 '15 at 15:20
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    We do not do debate as this is a question and answer site. Please find a forum such as aikiweb which will be happy to host debates. I said that your question reads like and if I have mistaken your question, maybe it could be better worded. – Sardathrion - against SE abuse Feb 09 '15 at 15:53
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    I attempted to analyze Aikido's self-defense strategy, strengths, and weaknesses in another answer. Please see this: http://martialarts.stackexchange.com/questions/4732/what-are-the-main-uses-of-aikido-in-self-defense – Steve Weigand Feb 09 '15 at 17:27
  • My conclusion is that you either need to train Aikido differently (by using non-compliant, live training partners), or you need to make sure you take your opponent by surprise (because then he won't be actively resisting what you're doing). This is a training failure, not a technique failure. Though, I would also argue that Aikido needs an infusion of striking, clinch / take-down, and ground skill to be reasonably "complete". Without those, yes, what you saw is exactly what will happen. In my opinion. – Steve Weigand Feb 09 '15 at 17:31
  • Cheers Steve. Reading your post as we speak. – ibimon Feb 09 '15 at 17:33
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    Incidentally, the idea that anyone is going to catch the hand or wrist of someone in a fight is flawed. Hands move faster than any other body part. They flail. You won't be able to target a hand and grab one. Try it, and you'll be KO'd before you can. So, that is not how you apply an aikido hand technique. Allowing someone to square up and start to punch and kick? Not gonna work. You have to take him by surprise, before the fight even begins. What you described as a muay thai vs. aikido fight is, therefore, ridiculous. Aikido isn't meant for that purpose. – Steve Weigand Feb 09 '15 at 20:17
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    @Steve I disagree with your assertion about catching a hand during a fight. Most practitioners learn how to parry, and a catch starts with a parry. For someone trained a catch isn't that hard - especially as the punch usually has to travel further than the hand doing the trap/catch. – slugster Feb 11 '15 at 00:21
  • @slugster, I disagree with your disagreement. :) This can be easily explored by you showing up at a karate, TKD, boxing, MMA, Gracie JJ, Muay-thai, etc. kind of place. Anyone with reasonable punching skills. Their hands aren't going to be easy to catch. In fact, it will be impossible for you. Not only will it be impossible to catch, but even if you somehow talked them into going slow enough for you to catch it, you would find that their tightened fist and wrist would not permit you to use it in kote-gaeshi. Ain't gonna happen. You need to get them by surprise before it even begins. – Steve Weigand Feb 11 '15 at 02:30
  • Once some guy warned me and my friend not to mess with him, because he was an "aikido expert". That was pretty funny. He is lucky we didn't decide to wreck him. Real fights are determined by strikes to vulnerable areas such as the neck, eyes and knees--all forbidden in competition fighting styles. Try Thai fighting if you want to fight for real; Thai fighters are actually trying to kill each other; they have very short careers for that reason, but I can tell you: it works in the street. – Tyler Durden Feb 16 '15 at 05:02

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My Sensei once told me that aikido looks different that it feels. In other words you see a choreographed routine, I see someone practicing a potentially nasty joint lock that would make it difficult and painful for resisting opponent to continue. Now aikido is not without weakness, but to assume it an obsolete because it doesn't do as well as you would like in a cage match is a mistake. I find plenty of videos of aikido holding its own (personal bias admitted) but I get the impression that 90% of martial arts videos on Youtube have a predetermined outcome, so basing judgment on that is about as wise as thinking everything on the internet is true.

Anthony
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I believe your question can be answered by considering the following variables:

  1. Your level of skill
  2. The number and skill of your opponents
  3. The circumstances in which the fight takes place

Of course, if you pit two martial artists with the same amount of experience against each other, the one with most practical experience will most probably win. Notice the emphasized practical experience: competition fights against martial artists of different martial arts, street fights, etc.

If you want something that will give you practical knowledge quickly, I suggest you try one of the styles that Juann Strauss submitted. If you want a more developed martial art that will also work your mind, or wish to learn fighting tactics and strategies, you can choose any martial art, including the violent ones, but give it time.

Macaco Branco
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George
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  • This seems like a general answer that does not answer the specific question. – Macaco Branco Feb 13 '15 at 13:40
  • If it is a specific answer you 're looking for: Practice aikido three times a week for three to five years to be able to defeat a low level opponent(no martial arts experience) 5 or more to defeat a mid-level opponent (little or medium experience of martial arts - that is 2-3 years in a "practical experience" kind martial art) and if we assume that two masters of martial arts are fighting, one of the "practical" kind and one aikidoka, imo the aikido master WILL lose. – George Feb 15 '15 at 20:53
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No, it isn't. But then neither are many other martial arts, especially the "defensive" or "soft" ones. As others have rightly said, it's probably because it's taught wrong. But I've never seen it taught right either. Watch that reality show with Steven Segal, arguably the most famous Aikido practitioner on earth: he hardly ever applies Aikido outside of the dojo. You never see him apprehend a suspect the way he does in his movies. He usually just jogs behind everyone else and provides live updates. And the cops he "trains" usually fall back to the stuff they learned at the academy because they know that an aggravated suspect is too tense to allow you to do fancy joint locks on him.

Aikido is great for when you're play-fighting with your girlfriend or picking on your younger brother. But if you're looking for an effective "soft" martial art, you should probably check out judo or jiujitsu.

Pro tip: If you want to learn how to survive a real fight, try one or more of the following martial arts

  • Kyukushin
  • Greco-roman wrestling
  • Boxing
  • Jiujitsu
  • Muai Thai
  • Judo*
  • Taekwondo**

You'll want to stay away from:

  • Any karate that focuses on points-based stop-start fighting
  • Aikido
  • Olympic or semi-contact Taekwondo
  • Any Kung Fu taught by a suspiciously young white man with glasses
  • Ninjitsu
  • Wing Chun
  • Anything that teaches you how to throw fireballs from your hands and/or utilise Qi/Reishi/Spirit Energy (that counts as excessive force and will get you arrested)
  • Stuff you learn on youtube from a guy who claims to be a navy SEAL/Green Beret/SAS/etc

*Judo You'll want to be a black belt before you're ready to apply judo to a crazy drunk guy with an attitude.

**Taekwondo You'll want to be training in full-contact Taekwondo, not the olympic or american variants. It looks and is scored a lot like Kyukushin.

Captain Kenpachi
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    add Russian Systema into the list there as well of things to avoid. It falls under contact-less fireballs knockouts.

    I myself practiced Kyokushin, which was my first MA. I wouldn't call it the ultimate form, but it gives a very strong basis on what to build on. Not forgetting the discipline and respect.

     – ibimon Feb 10 '15 at 12:18
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    I once saw a Kyukushin practitioner take on 10 jackasses. He took down 5 with an axe kick and just kept going at the others until he got so aggressive he pulled his katana out of his car's trunk, at which point we had to stop him. It was beautiful and scary at the same time. – Captain Kenpachi Feb 10 '15 at 12:30
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    -1. sigh Shodokan Aikido is taught at the Osaka Police Academy, Yoshinkan Aikido via the Senshisei course is taught to the Tokyo riot police. Your personal experience of Aikido might be different but it certainly is not only for play fighting girlfriends and picking on little brothers... I personally know and trained with military personal, police officers, and prison wardens that all effectively used Aikido in the field as part of their jobs. – Sardathrion - against SE abuse Feb 10 '15 at 13:11
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    I would attribute the relative effectiveness of the Senshisei course more to the 33 hours of intensive training they undergo per week than the fact that they're training Aikido. Though I will concede that 33 hours of training per week for 11 months could get you to a point where Aikido (or a subset of it) is effective. – Captain Kenpachi Feb 10 '15 at 13:51
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    maybe it's taught to police because they always take down a person in pairs? they trip the person over, and one officer locks the elbow, so the other can lock the wrist to handcuff. – ibimon Feb 10 '15 at 13:55
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    While I agree with the idea that there are more immediately practical martial arts than aikido, I don't like to see people completely write it off like you've done here, and in a way that's condescending and arrogant ("great for when you're play fighting with your girlfriend"). Truth is, practicality is determined entirely by how you train. Train with non-compliant, fully resisting, live partners, and you'll be far better off than training by punching to the air. It's why the martial arts you list seem to do better. Knowing that, you can make Aikido work for you. Or anything for that matter. – Steve Weigand Feb 10 '15 at 18:48
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    You're right of course. I won't deny it. But I feel it is my duty to lead the next generation in the right direction. There are only a handful of students who will ever have the time, money and will to undergo the Senshisei course, or go to train with the Shaolin monks. So for the rest of them to try Aikido or Kung Fu is a waste of time. They would be much better off trying one of the proven arts. – Captain Kenpachi Feb 11 '15 at 07:08
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    Though, to be fair to Kung Fu, I've seen some really impressive dedication from masters and students alike. – Captain Kenpachi Feb 11 '15 at 07:10
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    You can keep downvoting me, but you can't prove me wrong. – Captain Kenpachi Feb 13 '15 at 07:09