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In Terence Tao's book Analysis I, the definition of $1$ is given right after stating the first two axioms, namely the following axioms,

Axiom 1. $0$ is a natural number.

Then Tao elaborates the notion of successors (the successor of $n$ is taken there as $n{++}$) and then states the following axiom,

Axiom 2. If $n$ is a natural number, then $n{++}$ is also a natural number.

After stating these two axioms he then gives the following definition,

Definition We define $0{++}=1$.

My objection is regarding the place of occurrence of this definition in the book. In my opinion the definition shouldn't occur in the text until we have proved that $0{++}=1$.

I think that the statement $0{++}=1$ of course can be taken as a definition of $1$ but only when we have proved the following property of our intuitive natural number system, loosely speaking, $$\color{blue}{\text{There doesn't exist any natural number between $0$ and $1$.}}$$ The necessity for proving this statement is that without it we cannot say that the construction of our natural number from Peano Axioms is complete (note that Axiom of Induction only excludes the existence of any other "non-natural" elements but so far as I know, it doesn't trivially exclude the possibility of having natural number between $0$ and $0{++}$). For if there really exists any natural number between $0$ and $0{++}$, the resulting system doesn't (apparently) contradicts any one of the Peano Axioms but still clearly it isn't the natural number system that we have known since our childhood and which is our objective to treat formally. And since one of the most important objective of this axiomatic treatment of natural number is to formalize our notion of natural numbers, we mustn't include in our formalized system any property that contradicts out intuitive notion of natural numbers. Otherwise the whole point of construction becomes meaningless.

Up untill now I can't find any rigorous proof of the fact that I have stated above and which, using logical operators becomes (all the variables indicating natural numbers), $$\color{red}{\boxed{\not\exists b:0<b<0{++}}}$$

Is there any proof of this result? Can anyone elaborate where am I wrong?

I have discussed this problem with some of my friends but none of them could give me a satisfactory answer. I thought that maybe we should take this as an axiom.

In case the remaining Peano Axioms are needed,

Axiom 3. $0$ is not the successor of natural number; i.e. we have $n{+}{+}\neq 0$ for every natural number $n$.

Axiom 4. Different natural numbers must have different successors; i.e., if $n, m$ are natural numbers and $n\neq m$, then $n{+}{+}\neq m{+}{+}$.

Axiom 5.(Principle of Mathematical Induction) Let $P(n)$ be any property pertaining to a natural number $n$. Suppose that $P(0)$ is true, and suppose that whenever $P(n)$ is true, $P(n{+}{+})$ is also true. Then $P(n)$ is true for every natural number $n$.

The definition of $+$ is given as,

Definition of $+$

$0+m:=m$ and supposing that we know to define $n+m$ we define, $$(n{++})+m:=(n+m){++}$$

Also for the notion of Ordering of natural numbers,

Definition of $\ge$ and $>$

Let $n$ and $m$ be natural numbers. We say that $n$ is greater than or equal to $m$, and write $n \ge m$ or $m \le n$, iff we have $n = m + a$ for some natural number $a$. We say that $n$ is strictly greater than $m$, and write $n > m$ or $m < n$, iff $n \ge m$ and $n \ne m$.


After I have asked it here in the comment what Emil Jeřábek pointed out I can't understand. Specifically, I don't understand,

"The only thing that you need to prove before introducing a definition of a constant is that there exists a unique element satisfying the definition. ..."

Also,

"In any case, the property you want is stated right after the definition of < in Proposition 2.2.12, and you are asked to prove it yourself in Exercise 2.2.3,.."

It is because the Proposition 2.2.12, is, (text quoted),

Proposition 2.1.12 (Basic properties of order for natural numbers)

(a) (Order is reflexive) $a \ge a$.

(b) (Order is transitive) If $a \ge b$ and $b \ge c$, then $a \ge c$.

(c) (Order is anti-symmetric) If $a \ge b$ and $b \ge a$, then $a = b$.

(d) (Addition preserves order) $a \ge b$ if and only if $a+ c \ge b +c$.

(e) $a< b$ if and only if $a{++}\le b$.

(f) $a < b$ if and only if $b = a + d$ for some positive number $d$. (A positive number is a natural number which is not equal to $0$)

  • "...but only when we have proved the following property of our intuitive natural number system, loosely speaking, There doesn't exist any natural number between 0 and 1." wrong. we just take it to be the definition – Mister Benjamin Dover Jan 10 '15 at 11:53
  • No. The Peano Axioms don't explicitly say that. Which definition says (or implies) that there doesn't exist any natural number between $0$ and $1$? –  Jan 10 '15 at 11:58
  • Yes!! how can you even talk of $1$ if you haven't defined it yet?. Thus we put $1:=0++$. How do you define $1$ (in terms of the Peano axioms) if not by this? – Mister Benjamin Dover Jan 10 '15 at 12:00
  • @Laters The OP would do better in saying $\color{blue}{\text{There doesn't exist any natural number between $0$ and $0++$.}}$. This what he means to ask. OP: what do you mean with 'between'? I.e., how are you going to define $\leq$? Also note that the property you're stressing over is one of many. Why is this one relevant enough to be 'the one'? N.B.: I only read half of the question. – Git Gud Jan 10 '15 at 12:04
  • @GitGud: Go on reading. The definition of $\ge$ is given. –  Jan 10 '15 at 12:05
  • @Laters: You may define $1=0{++}$, that's not a problem because it's just a symbol. But that representation of $0{++}$ doesn't imply that the property of our intuitive $1$ should hold for this symbol also. And we aren't defining it, we are assuming it. This is my problem. Your comment may have resulted due to the "coincidental" similarity in the notation of the $1$ defined in the equation $0{++}=1$ and the intuitive concept of $1$ that we have been taught since our childhood. –  Jan 10 '15 at 12:09
  • The definition of the order relation relies on the definition of addition, take $S(0)=1$, show that $0<1$, take $S(S(0))=2$, show that $2>1$, now use induction to show that for every $n$ we have $2+n>1$. Basically we don't know yet that there is no number in between $1$ and $0$ when defining $1$, we don't assume it, that follows later from the definition of addition and the order relation – Alessandro Codenotti Jan 10 '15 at 12:10
  • @user170039 What you say in your comment above is correct. But you are not assuming it by defining it. As you know, you abbreviate $0++$ by $1$ and then you can prove that property. If it makes you feel better, do not use that abbreviation until you've proved the property. – Git Gud Jan 10 '15 at 12:11
  • @GitGud: Exactly. That's what the question asks. –  Jan 10 '15 at 12:12
  • @Alessandro: It would be very good if you can outline the proof of it. –  Jan 10 '15 at 12:14
  • Why did you choose this particular property as being THE one (cf @GitGud's question above)? For example, why not $\forall a, (a>0 \Rightarrow a\geq 1)$? Not that this answers your question, but this interests me. Maybe the definition of 1 that Tao gives satisfies that there is no element between $0$ and $1$, but the formula above fails. Would that bother you? – zarathustra Jan 10 '15 at 12:19
  • @zarathustra: Can you elaborate your point? And no, Tao's definition of $1$ is just as simple as $1:=0{++}$. Nothing else. –  Jan 10 '15 at 12:23
  • Well, the point of your question is that we can't (or shouldn't) define $1$ this way until we have proved that $\not\exists b : 0<b<0++$. My question is why did you choose this particular property to be your hobby horse? – zarathustra Jan 10 '15 at 12:24
  • @zarathustra: It's because it naturally occurred to me while I was trying to solve the exercises of Tao. –  Jan 10 '15 at 12:26
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    So another person may come up with his/her favourite formula $\phi$, and argue that you are not allowed to define $1$ as $0++$ until you have proven $\phi$ to be true. – zarathustra Jan 10 '15 at 12:28
  • @zarathustra: If they can and there be such infinitely many distinct $\phi$'s then this question asks the reason of the existence of such $\phi$'s and if the set of $\phi$ is finite then one has to prove all the formulas before defining $1$. Note that by this $1$ we mean the element of the Formal Natural System which should have, loosely speaking, all the property(ies) that the intuitive $1$ has (have). –  Jan 10 '15 at 12:31
  • @user170039 "The only thing that you need to prove before introducing a definition of a constant is that there exists a unique element satisfying the definition..." Understanding this, I think, is more useful than answering your questions because by understanding it, your questions may still be asked, but your issues will dissipate. – Git Gud Jan 10 '15 at 12:33
  • @GitGud: Why that is the only thing I need to prove? Maybe I am a bit over-skeptic but can we give logical justification that that is the *only* thing we need to prove before introducing a definition? –  Jan 10 '15 at 12:41
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    @user170039 Because writing mathematics lies in abbreviations. You start with some primitive symbols which constitute what one names language and because it is a drag to use only the primitive symbols, one abbreviates formulas by other symbols. This action is not mathematical, it's a device we use to facilitate communication. But still, this is something that must be done with care. (...) – Git Gud Jan 10 '15 at 12:44
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    (...) In the context of real numbers, if you decide to say 'I want to abbreviate one of the zeroes of $x^2+1$' by $i$ you will run into problems because there isn't any real number that satisfies the equation, the existence and uniqueness fails due to the lack of existence. If you instead consider $x^2-2$ and decide to abbreviate the roots by $r$, the uniqueness fails, because $r$ can be either $-\sqrt 2$ or $\sqrt 2$ and by using $r$ will be referring to two distinct objects by the same name, which is, at best, very bad practice. – Git Gud Jan 10 '15 at 12:48
  • The amusing thing is that when I have asked this to a Mathematician whom I know, he told me not to mess with such "boring and idiotic" things. That's why I hesitated to post this problem fearing that I may waste some valuable time of others. –  Jan 10 '15 at 12:50
  • @GitGud: Thanks for your interesting remarks. But that, though is important, isn't probably the main focus of the question. Is it? –  Jan 10 '15 at 12:52
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    @user170039 Certain people do not worry about this sort of thing. You can find them in most fields of mathematics, but they abound in non-(Algebra or Logic). There has 'always' been a feud between those who care about these things and those who don't. I'm sure you'll find many others who think that this retarded at all levels of mathematics. You're welcome. – Git Gud Jan 10 '15 at 12:55

4 Answers4

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We define $1$ as the successor of $0$, but we need to define an order relations on the naturals numbers before being able to argue that there are no natural numbers in between $0$ and $1$.

I'm going to use $S(n)$ as the successor of $n$ instead of $n++$ because it gets confusing when writing additions otherwise.

You gave the definition of the usual order relation in your question so i won't repeat it here, but note that it relies on addition, so we need to define that first, this is usually done recursively:

$$n+0=n$$ $$n+S(m)=S(n+m)$$

Now we can argue that $0<1$ since $0+S(0)=S(0)=1$.
We can also show that $1<2$ since $S(0)+S(0)=S(S(0)+0)=S(S(0))$ (of course we need to define $2=S(S(0))$ before)

We can show that $S(n)=n+1$ since $n+1=n+S(0)=S(n+0)=S(n)$ (for comodity of notation later on)

Now we need to show that if $k>1$ then $k+1>1$.
We now that $k=1+n$ for some integer $n$.
we also now, by the axioms, that if $a=b$ then $a+1=b+1$ thus $k+1=1+n+1$ and since $n+1$ is the successor of $n$ then $k+1$ can be written as $1+b$ for some integer $b$.

So, we know that $0<1$, $1=1$ and all the other integers are $>1$, as we wished to prove.

I've written this a bit in a hurry, so I hope it's clear enough

  • yes, and it seems to me that this question was already answered in another question you asked, so i don't really understand what is still unclear to you. When we say $1=S(0)$ we do not know that there isn't a number between $0$ and $1$, after defining addition and the order relation we can show that this is indeed the case, as I have (hopefully, if I didn't make any mistake) done in my answer – Alessandro Codenotti Jan 10 '15 at 12:46
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Starting with the first-order Peano Axiom including the recursive axioms for sum, and avoiding the use of the defined symbol $1$, we have to prove that :

$\lnot \exists k (x < k \land k < S(x))$,

where $S(n)$ is the successor function (avoiding thus the cumbersome symbol : $n++$).

We need the definition of $<$; we will use :

$n < m$ iff $\exists z(m = n + S(z))$.

i) First, we will prove that :

for all $n, \ n < S(n)$.

According to the definition of $<$, we have to prove that : $\exists z(S(x) = x + S(z))$.

But (first axiom for $+$) : $x = x + 0$; thus : $S(x)=S(x+0)$.

By second axiom for $+$ : $S(x) = x + S(0)$.

Thus, by $\exists$-introduction :

$\exists z (S(x) = x + S(z))$.

ii) Now, assume that, for some $k$ :

$x < k \land k < S(x)$.

From $x < k$, by the definition of $<$, we have that :

$k = x + S(z_1)$, for some $z_1$;

in the same way :

$S(x) = k + S(z_2)$.

So : $S(x) = x + S(z_1) + S(z_2)$; using the axiom for $+$ we have that :

$S(x) = x + S(z_1 + S(z_2)) = x + S(S(z_1 + z_2)) = S(x + S(z_1 + z_2))$.

By property of $S$, we have that :

$x = x + S(z_1 + z_2)$.

But : $x = x + 0$; thus :

$S(z_1 + z_2) = 0$

i.e. $\exists z (S(z)=0)$, contrary to axiom : $\forall x \lnot (S(x) = 0)$.

Thus, we have proved that :

$\lnot \exists z (x < z \land z < S(x))$.


About :

$∀n(n=0 \lor ∃b(n=S(b)))$

this is : $∀n(\lnot(n = 0) \rightarrow ∃b(n=S(b)))$ and is provable by Induction on $n$.

Basis : $n=0$. We have that $0=0$; thus, by tautological consequence (with the tautology : $P \rightarrow (\lnot P \rightarrow Q)$) :

$\lnot (0 = 0) \rightarrow ∃b(0=S(b))$

Induction step : we have $S(n)=S(n)$; thus, by $\exists$-introduction : $\exists b (S(n)=S(b))$ and by tautological consequence (with the tautology : $P \rightarrow (Q \rightarrow P)$) : $\lnot (S(n) = 0 ) \rightarrow \exists b(S(n)=S(b))$.

Thus, having proved it for $0$ and for $S(n)$, we conclude by Induction with :

$\forall n (\lnot (n = 0) \rightarrow \exists b (n=S(b)))$.

Alternatively :

Basis : $n=0$. We have that $0=0$; thus, by $\lor$-introduction :

$0 = 0 \lor ∃b(0=S(b))$

Induction step : we have $S(n)=S(n)$; thus, by $\exists$-introduction : $\exists b (S(n)=S(b))$ and by $\lor$-introduction : $S(n)=0 \lor \exists b(S(n)=S(b))$.

Thus, having proved it for $0$ and for $S(n)$, we conclude - again by Induction - with :

$\forall n ((n = 0) \lor \exists b (n=S(b)))$.

  • I have just finished reading your argument. If I got your idea correctly then your basic argument is that $n<m<n{++}\implies (m=n+r)\land(n{++}=m+s)\implies 0{++}=r+s$ where $r$ and $s$ are positive numbers. Am I correct so far? It would be very good if you can write $S(x)=x{++}$. –  Jan 10 '15 at 13:22
  • @user170039 - from the "double inequality" we derive : $n++=n+(r++)+(s++)$, for $r,s$ numbers. From this : $n++=n+(((r+s)++)++)$ an thus, by "functionality" of the successor function $S$ : $n = n + ((r+s)++)$, which is de required contradiction. – Mauro ALLEGRANZA Jan 10 '15 at 13:28
  • But the definition of $>$ can be stated as $n>m\iff \exists b(\ne 0)\mid n=m+b$. How do you know that that $b$ should be of the form, say, $x{++}$? Aren't you implicitly assuming for every positive natural number $v$ there exists a natural number $u$ such that $u{++}=v$? If that's so then please read the linked questions. –  Jan 10 '15 at 13:34
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    This follows directly from the axioms, excluding 0 all the other numbers are the successor of a number – Alessandro Codenotti Jan 10 '15 at 13:39
  • @user170039 - see the expanded answer; we have proved that $\forall n((n \ne 0) \rightarrow \exists z(n=S(z)))$. – Mauro ALLEGRANZA Jan 10 '15 at 16:55
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The set $\mathcal M=\{0,1,1\!+\!+,\dots\}$ satisfies axiom 1-4. Suppose $\mathbb N$ satisfies axiom 1-5. Now, $0\in \mathcal M$ and $n\in \mathcal M\implies n\!+\!+\in \mathcal M$ (by definition), which implies $\forall n\in\mathbb N:n\in \mathcal M$ (by induction) why $\mathbb N\subseteq \mathcal M$.

Then show $0<b<1\implies \neg\exists n\in \mathcal M: n\!+\!+=b$.

Lehs
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  • If you are going to use set theory then there I think that it can be done in a much simpler way. Suppose that such $b$'s exist. Then consider the set of all such "troublesome natural numbers". Call it $\mathfrak{N}$. Now let, $\mathcal{N}:={b:n<b<n{++}}$. Then define $\mathbb{N}=\mathfrak{N}\setminus\mathcal{N}$. –  Jan 11 '15 at 05:08
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Axiom 2 can be restated:

$\forall x\in N: \exists y\in N: y=x++$

So, the definition $1=0++$ is just an application of this axiom. You are simply naming the successor of $0$.