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What would be the easiest way to solve this?

$$x^\frac 43 = \frac {16}{81}$$

I saw this in class and have no clue how did they get $$x = \frac 8{27}$$

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    @user21820 I'm not arguing that the answer $8/27$ (by itself) is right; merely that the question stated above is incomplete. We weren't there in class the day this was done, and we don't know the full context. You have supplied a very reasonable set of assumptions to replace the missing context, and you have given the correct answer for those assumptions. At least one person admitted that they gave a wrong answer (wrong because they used your assumptions but forgot the negative root). But I think it's important to establish a common context first, then figure out if the answer is OK. – David K Feb 16 '16 at 19:17
  • @DavidK: That's perfectly fine, and to find out the context, the other respondents should have asked in comments and not simply put up a response that would be wrong in the most common context. This question is clearly high-school level. Furthermore, regardless of which definition is in use, you cannot deny that I am right in objecting to blatantly false statements: Daniel's first line (What are $a,x,y$? Reals? Elephants? Cookies? Also in HowDoIMath's deleted answer) and Mark Bennet's "the fourth root (Read my comments). – user21820 Feb 17 '16 at 07:10
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    @DavidK: They also cannot give silly excuses such as "The rule is correct when interpreted in the right context.", because otherwise you cannot object to my rule: "$\frac{a}{b}+\frac{c}{d} = \frac{a+c}{b+d}$", because it is certainly correct in the right context! Or even "$0 = 1$"... When people do not clearly state the context, it is only reasonable to look at how the general audience would interpret it and then judge accordingly. By this criterion Daniel's and Mark Bennet's answers are simply false. Notice also how they refuse to edit their answers to clarify anything. That too is wrong. – user21820 Feb 17 '16 at 07:16
  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – Jyrki Lahtonen Feb 17 '16 at 07:35
  • (Moved comment summary) If you use real exponentiation, Daniel's answer is wrong and you get two solutions. If you use complex exponentiation, Daniel's answer is still wrong, but you do get a unique solution, and my answer shows that properly. Either way, Daniel's answer is wrong since his very first claim is false for both real and complex exponentiation! For some details of the construction of the real exponentiation see http://math.stackexchange.com/a/1658512/21820. @JyrkiLahtonen: Thanks for cleaning up. – user21820 Feb 17 '16 at 07:44
  • The answer by fosho is correct. OP uses the tag algebra-precalculus and explicitly wrote in the post that the answer is $\frac{8}{27}$. One implicit assumption in equation in such course is that $x>0$. If one is about to criticize such answer does not explicitly say $x>0$, then one could very fairly criticize 21820's answer that no one should claim that $x$ is not a complex number. –  Nov 25 '19 at 19:58
  • OP did not write at all as user21820 did "Given real number $x$" in the post, and the context tells that one assumes $x$ is a positive real number here. –  Nov 25 '19 at 20:01

6 Answers6

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Remember that

  • $(a^x)^y = a^{xy}$

Now raising both sides of your equation to the the power of $\frac{3}{4}$ will preserve the equality and make your life easier,$$x=\big(x^{\frac{4}{3}} \big)^{\frac{3}{4}} = \bigg(\frac{2^4}{3^4}\bigg)^{\frac{3}{4}} = \frac{2^3}{3^3}$$

fosho
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  • Can you explain? – Balázs Vincze Feb 14 '16 at 11:57
  • Just raise both sides of your equation to the power of $\frac{3}{4}$. And use the rules of exponents. – fosho Feb 14 '16 at 11:57
  • @BalázsVincze let me know if it still is not clear. – fosho Feb 14 '16 at 12:00
  • @BalázsVincze: This answer is wrong, and so is the answer your were given in class. – user21820 Feb 14 '16 at 15:11
  • This answer is correct. OP uses the tag algebra-precalculus and explicitly wrote in the post that the answer is $\frac{8}{27}$. One implicit assumption in equation in such course is that $x>0$. If one is about to criticize such answer does not explicitly say $x>0$, then one could very fairly criticize 21820's answer that no one should claim that $x$ is not a complex number. –  Nov 25 '19 at 19:57
  • user21820's comment is very much misleading. –  Nov 25 '19 at 19:57
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I'd do it as $\frac {16}{81}=\frac {2^4}{3^4}$, take the fourth root and then cube it. With these power questions, it is often helpful to obtain an explicit factorisation of the numbers involved as the first stage, which will tell you immediately if the exponents are convenient.

Mark Bennet
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  • Wrong. See my answer. In particular there is no "the fourth root". – user21820 Feb 14 '16 at 15:11
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    @user21820 That depends whether you are solving in rationals or not - this looks like an elementary problem to me - you can throw in a fourth root of unity if you like. – Mark Bennet Feb 14 '16 at 15:53
  • Wrong again. My answer shows clearly that there are two rational solutions. I'm frankly surprised that you cannot get this elementary mathematical problem right, and don't acknowledge a correct solution when it is presented clearly to you. – user21820 Feb 15 '16 at 02:50
  • @user21820 Of course $-1$ is a fourth root of unity, and the principal value of the fourth root conventionally takes the value $+1$ – Mark Bennet Feb 15 '16 at 06:02
  • Your error has nothing to do with principal roots of unity, as I stated in an earlier comment. You simply fell into the same exact pit that Daniel did with his first claimed equality, which is utter nonsense when $a$ is negative. – user21820 Feb 15 '16 at 16:55
  • @user21820 If you note carefully, my answer rewrites the question to show an approach. You are over interpreting the word "the". – Mark Bennet Feb 15 '16 at 20:05
  • No I am not over-interpreting. After my first comment objecting to your post, you said "depends whether you are solving in rationals or not". This is nonsense. There are two rational fourth roots so being rational is irrelevant. Furthermore, even if I am over-interpreting, the very fact that you didn't point out the error in the question itself shows that you fell into the same pit as the other respondents. I've had enough of this already; you can say whatever you like but it does not make your answer any less false than before. – user21820 Feb 16 '16 at 05:43
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    @user21820 I've had enough of the tone of your comments. You have a point, and I agree my response was rather in haste, but it is accurate. And I still think the answer I have given - to factorise the fraction - is helpful. If you take the principal fourth root, the others are simply obtained by multiplying by fourth roots of unity. You can choose if you want them or not. – Mark Bennet Feb 16 '16 at 12:03
  • Let's get this very clear. (1) I did not criticize your statement about factorizing the fraction. (2) Your response is wrong unless you want to contort the English grammar to explain away your use of the definite article. (3) It is abundantly clear that almost everyone who reads your answer and not my comments but does not know the mathematics will interpret according to standard English and hence learn the wrong thing. (4) You still refuse to admit that your comment about "solving in rationals" is wrong. Why? – user21820 Feb 16 '16 at 16:16
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Given real number $x$ such that $x^\frac{4}{3} = \frac{16}{81}$:

  $\sqrt[3]{x}^4 = (\frac{2}{3})^4$.

  $\sqrt[3]{x} = \frac{2}{3}$ or $\sqrt[3]{x} = -\frac{2}{3}$.

  $x = (\frac{2}{3})^3$ or $x = (-\frac{2}{3})^3 = -(\frac{2}{3})^3$.

To actively counter the common error made by the other respondents, note all the following for real $x$:

  It is false that $(x^4)^\frac{1}{4} = x$. It is true that $(x^4)^\frac{1}{4} = |x|$.

  It is false that $(x^\frac{4}{3})^\frac{3}{4} = x$. It is true that $(x^\frac{4}{3})^\frac{3}{4} = |x|$.

That is the reason why those respondents do not get the two solutions that I have shown above.

user21820
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    If you follow the convention that $x^{\frac{1}{4}}$ denotes the principal fourth root of $x$, then there should be only one solution. – N. F. Taussig Feb 14 '16 at 15:44
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    @N.F.Taussig Isn't $x=-\frac{8}{27}$ a solution? – user84413 Feb 15 '16 at 00:46
  • It is true that $$\left(-\frac{8}{27}\right)^{\frac{4}{3}} = \frac{16}{81}$$ What I was saying is that since the principal fourth root of $16/81$ is the non-negative root $$x = \left(\frac{16}{81}\right)^{\frac{3}{4}} = \left[\left(\frac{16}{81}\right)^{\frac{1}{4}}\right]^3 = \left(\frac{2}{3}\right)^3 = \frac{8}{27}$$ – N. F. Taussig Feb 15 '16 at 00:51
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    @user84413: Exactly, it is a solution, so my answer is correct. People who downvote my answers tend to be those who don't understand the mathematics involved. – user21820 Feb 15 '16 at 02:48
  • @N.F.Taussig Thanks for your reply to my question. It seems to me that you could also use your reasoning to conclude that $x^2=9\implies x=9^{\frac{1}{2}}\implies x=3$. – user84413 Feb 15 '16 at 16:33
  • @user84413 You are correct. I fell into the trap of raising each side to the $3/4$th power, at which point I took the principal $4$th root, then cubed the result. Doing that overlooks the negative root. A better approach is to treat $x^{\frac{4}{3}}$ as $(x^4)^{\frac{1}{3}}$, cube both sides (after factoring $16$ and $81$ as $2^4$ and $3^4$, respectively, then take four roots. – N. F. Taussig Feb 15 '16 at 16:38
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    @N.F.Taussig Thanks for your reply. You are clearly not the only person who fell into this trap (which I have fallen into before myself). – user84413 Feb 15 '16 at 16:46
  • @N.F.Taussig: I think you still do not understand the correct mathematics. Some joker removed my earlier comment which explains your error. You can do the same thing to both sides of an equality, including raising to the $\frac{3}{4}$th power. What you cannot do is claim $(x^\frac{4}{3})^\frac{3}{4} = x$. – user21820 Feb 15 '16 at 16:51
  • @user21820 I did not respond to your previous posts because of your truculence. I said that my mistake was taking the principal fourth root rather than considering all the fourth roots. – N. F. Taussig Feb 15 '16 at 16:53
  • @N.F.Taussig: As I keep repeating, there is nothing wrong with taking the principal fourth root. Is my last sentence in my previous comment not clear enough on where exactly your error is?? Please check any proper mathematical source to verify what I say concerning exponentiation. – user21820 Feb 15 '16 at 16:57
  • That is because $(x^{\frac{4}{3}})^{\frac{3}{4}} = |x|$. When I set $x$ equal to the principal fourth root of $16/81$, I overlooked the negative root. – N. F. Taussig Feb 15 '16 at 17:01
  • @N.F.Taussig: For real $x$, yes. I hope you actually get my point, which is that you can take the real fourth root of both sides of any equality of non-negative real numbers. Furthermore, it's better not to use the term "principal" as it usually refers to the principal branch cut which forbids taking any root of zero. Same reason why real cube root is not the principal cube root of a real number. – user21820 Feb 15 '16 at 17:05
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    I am aware that there are also two complex roots. I also understand your point about being able to take the fourth roots of both sides of any equality of non-negative numbers. The point is that the equation $x^{\frac{4}{3}} = \frac{16}{81}$ is not equivalent to the problem $x = \left(\frac{16}{81}\right)^{\frac{3}{4}}$, which is where I made my mistake, as did the other people who responded to this question. – N. F. Taussig Feb 15 '16 at 17:10
  • @N.F.Taussig: Correct, and I'm glad that you see the complete picture now. I've in any case added a bit to my answer in the hope that it helps people see it faster. – user21820 Feb 15 '16 at 17:12
  • I suggest that you add $(x^{\frac{1}{4}})^4 = (x^{\frac{4}{3}})^{\frac{3}{4}} = |x|$, which explains more clearly why there are two real-valued solutions. – N. F. Taussig Feb 15 '16 at 17:14
  • @N.F.Taussig: Agreed, done. Like it better? – user21820 Feb 15 '16 at 17:24
  • @user21820 Indeed. Sorry, I was away from my computer. – N. F. Taussig Feb 15 '16 at 17:51
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For real exponentiation, see my other answer. For complex exponentiation using the principal branch cut:

Given $x \in \mathbb{C} \smallsetminus \mathbb{R}_{\le 0}$ such that $x^\frac{4}{3} = \frac{16}{81}$:

  $x^\frac{4}{3} = \exp( \frac{4}{3} \ln_π(x) )$ by definition and $\frac{16}{81} = \exp( \ln_π(\frac{16}{81}) ) = \exp( 4 \ln_π(\frac{2}{3}) )$.

  [Note that the last equality is because $\arg_π(\frac{16}{81}) = 0$. Real logarithm rules fail in general!]

  Thus $\frac{4}{3} \ln_π(x) = 4 \ln_π(\frac{2}{3}) + 2πik$ for some integer $k$.

  Thus $\ln_π(x) = 3 \ln_π(\frac{2}{3}) + 2πi\frac{3}{4}k$.

  Thus $\arg_π(x) = 3 \arg_π(\frac{2}{3}) + 2π\frac{3}{4}k = \frac{3}{2}kπ$.

  Thus $k = 0$ because $\arg_π(x) \in (-π,π)$.

  Thus $x = \exp( 3 \ln_π(\frac{2}{3}) ) = (\frac{2}{3})^3$.

As always, one must check that whatever $x$ as found in the last line above is actually a solution to $x^\frac{4}{3} = \frac{16}{81}$. It is, so we have found all solutions where the question is interpreted using the principal branch cut. Using other branch cuts the method is exactly the same but will yield different $k$ and hence different solutions.

Technical note

Some people define the branch cut so that the function is still defined on the negative real line, in which case usually $\arg$ is defined to take values in the half-open interval $(-π,π]$. Under this convention $\ln(-1) = iπ$, whereas under the other convention $\ln(-1)$ is undefined. The main advantage of this convention is that $\ln$ is defined on $\mathbb{C}_{\ne 0}$. The disadvantage is that it is not an open domain, which is useful for other things.

user21820
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Its same as cubing both sides we get $x^4=\frac{16^3}{81^3}$ thus we have to express it as power of $4$ so we can write it as $\frac{2^{12}}{3^{12}}$ thus taking 4th root $x=8/27$

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Method 1: We transform the equation into a difference of fourth powers, then factor to find the roots of the quartic.

\begin{align*} x^{\frac{4}{3}} & = \frac{16}{81}\\ x^4 & = \left(\frac{16}{81}\right)^3\\ x^4 & = \left(\frac{2^4}{3^4}\right)^3\\ x^4 & = \frac{2^{12}}{3^{12}}\\ x^4 & = \left(\frac{2^3}{3^3}\right)^4\\ x^4 & = \left(\frac{8}{27}\right)^4\\ x^4 - \left(\frac{8}{27}\right)^4 & = 0\\ \left[x^2 + \left(\frac{8}{27}\right)^2\right]\left[x^2 - \left(\frac{8}{27}\right)^2\right] & = 0\\ \left[x^2 + \left(\frac{8}{27}\right)^2\right]\left(x + \frac{8}{27}\right)\left(x - \frac{8}{27}\right) & = 0 \tag{1} \end{align*} For any real number $x$, the factor $$x^2 + \left(\frac{8}{27}\right)^2 > 0$$ so the real-valued roots of equation 1 are $$x = \pm \frac{8}{27}$$

Note: If $x$ is a non-zero real number, then $$ (x^n)^{\frac{1}{n}} = \begin{cases} x & \text{if $n$ is odd}\\ |x| & \text{if $n$ is even} \end{cases} $$ Thus, if $x$ is a non-zero real number, we obtain $$\left(x^{\frac{4}{3}}\right)^{\frac{3}{4}} = \left\{\left[\left(x^{\frac{1}{3}}\right)^4\right]^3\right\}^{\frac{1}{4}} = \left\{\left[\left(x^{\frac{1}{3}}\right)^3\right]^4\right\}^{\frac{1}{4}} = (x^4)^{\frac{1}{4}} = |x|$$

Method 2: We raise each side of the equation $x^{\frac{4}{3}} = \frac{16}{81}$ to the $(3/4)$th power, then solve for the real-valued roots. \begin{align*} x^{\frac{4}{3}} & = \frac{16}{81}\\ \left(x^{\frac{4}{3}}\right)^{\frac{3}{4}} & = \left(\frac{16}{81}\right)^{\frac{3}{4}}\\ |x| & = \left[\left(\frac{16}{81}\right)^{\frac{1}{4}}\right]^3\\ |x| & = \left[\left(\frac{2^4}{3^4}\right)^{\frac{1}{4}}\right]^3\\ |x| & = \left(\frac{2}{3}\right)^3\\ |x| & = \frac{8}{27}\\ x & = \pm \frac{8}{27} \end{align*}

Check: If $x = \pm \frac{8}{27}$, then $$\left(\pm \frac{8}{27}\right)^{\frac{4}{3}} = \left[\left(\pm \frac{8}{27}\right)^{\frac{1}{3}}\right]^4 = \left[\left(\pm \frac{2^3}{3^3}\right)^\frac{1}{3}\right]^4 = \left(\pm \frac{2}{3}\right)^4 = \frac{16}{81}$$

N. F. Taussig
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  • Can you clarify whether each new line represents an "if" statement, or an "if and only if" statement? The distinction seems crucial for not losing the negative solution to this problem. – djechlin Feb 16 '16 at 01:49
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    Instead of claiming equivalences, you could simply note that each line follows from the preceding ones, and at the very end just check that all the possibilities obtained are actually solutions. – user21820 Feb 16 '16 at 05:55
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    Also note that under standard complex exponentiation there is only one solution. Yours would be correct only if rational powers of complex numbers is defined incompatibly with the standard definition. In algebra there may be some use for that, but in complex analysis we usually want the standard definition because of its differentiability on its domain. See my second response for the correct method. For this reason, please remove the part of your answer about complex solutions. – user21820 Feb 16 '16 at 06:29
  • Oops I didn't notice earlier that your line right in the middle is wrong. If you look carefully you're claiming that $x^\frac{12}{12} = |x|$, which is false. – user21820 Feb 16 '16 at 16:24
  • I see what you mean. I have edited that line so that it no longer looks like I am saying that $x = |x|$. Based on our conversations, I suspect that this related problem will interest you. – N. F. Taussig Feb 16 '16 at 16:42
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    Better. But I'd recommend going purely by the definition I gave in my comments elsewhere. Currently it seems you're guessing. Odd $n$-th root is the exact inverse of $n$-th power, so for $x \ne 0$ we have $(x^\frac{4}{3})^\frac{3}{4} = (((x^\frac{1}{3})^4)^\frac{1}{4})^3 = (((x^\frac{1}{3})^4)^3)^\frac{1}{4} = (((x^\frac{1}{3})^3)^4)^\frac{1}{4} = (x^4)^\frac{1}{4}$ where the first equality is by definition, second is because $(x^\frac{1}{3})^4 > 0$ and third is because integer powers commute and fourth is by definition of real cube-root. – user21820 Feb 16 '16 at 16:44
  • The condition $x \ne 0$ case can be omitted only if we are aware that negative power of $0$ is not allowed in the rule that allows the second equality. In general swapping is allowed for arbitrary real exponents if the base is positive, which is why I excluded $x = 0$. – user21820 Feb 16 '16 at 16:46
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    I overlooked the $x \neq 0$ condition since I was working with positive exponents. Your explanation of why $(x^{\frac{4}{3}})^{\frac{3}{4}} = |x|$ was particularly clear, even to my sleep-deprived mind. – N. F. Taussig Feb 16 '16 at 17:14