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So: I'm trying to dust off my brain and learn calculus. Watching Professor Leonard's nice introductory video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54_XRjHhZzI&app=desktop

Prof. L draws a parabola: y=x^2, and calculates the slope at point: 'x=1' thus:

(x-1)(x+1)/(x-1)=(x+1)

He cancels '(x-1)' top and bottom to arrive at:

(x+1)=2 ... the slope at tangent point 'x'.

He assures us you can't divide by zero nevertheless if we do not cancel '(x-1)' first, we DO end up with a division by zero. Thus it seems to me that:

(x+1)*0/0=x+1

... and all that's needed to smooth out the problem is to just do the canceling first and then we never have to 'see' the division by zero at all. Our parabola lines remain unbroken by this imaginary break which isn't really there in practice.

He talks about 'limits' as tho he's getting infinitely close. but he says the tangent is the actual tangent not an infinitely close secant, thus he really is dividing by zero because how can we have a real tangent to an imaginary point?. So it seems to me that if calculus works, then:

x*n/n=x (generally true)

x*0/0=x (specifically true)

... because you can cancel the division against the multiplication and it seems this works even if 'n=0' cuz if it didn't then calculus would be busted and we'd not be able to calculate the true tangent, only an infinitely good approximation -- which the Professor denies.

Furthermore he says you can get infinitely close on either the smaller or the larger side of the Limit and the tangent is exactly where they meet, but that is exactly where you must divide by zero. Ergo:

x*0/0=x

So I'm proposing a mathematical 'quantum observer effect': cancel before 'looking' and you never 'see' the division by zero and all's well ;-)

Please shoot me down in flames cuz this is probably important.

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The expression $\displaystyle \frac{(x-1)(x+1)}{(x-1)}$ cannot be evaluated at $x = 1$ because that would require division by zero, which is undefined. No one is dividing by zero or making a new rule to allow some kind of special kind of dividing by zero (although it can look like that at first).

The limit $\displaystyle \lim_{x \rightarrow 1} \frac{(x-1)(x+1)}{(x-1)}$ is a slightly different object than the fraction we started with. We never let $x = 1$ while evaluating it. Instead, we ask "from the graph of this function, what would the closest neighbors on the left and right predict should be the value of the function at $x = 1$?" So what is that graph?

plot of \frac{(x-1)(x+1)}{(x-1)} showing removable discontinuity at (1,2)

Notice the hole in the graph at $(1,2)$. This is a one point gap in the graph caused by the division by zero at $x = 1$. Consequently, this graph is discontinuous at $x = 1$. Nevertheless, we can ask the neighbors what value should be taken at that missing point, if we were to assume that the function was continuous at that point. And, by looking, we see that the neighbors tell us the value would be $2$ if the function were continuous at that point. So we have $$ \lim_{x \rightarrow 1} \frac{(x-1)(x+1)}{(x-1)} = 2 \text{.} $$

However, no one wants to have to produce a graph every time we evaluate a limit. So we want a symbolic way to attack this. Notice that the interesting behaviour is introduced by the $x-1$ factors; the $x+1$ factor is just "along for the ride". So we factor the easy stuff out of the limit, immediately evaluating it at $x=1$ and leave the interesting stuff in it.

$$ \lim_{x \rightarrow 1} \frac{(x-1)(x+1)}{(x-1)} = (1+1) \lim_{x \rightarrow 1} \frac{x-1}{x-1} \text{.} $$ We should recognize that what is inside the limit is easy to evaluate at the neighbors of $x=1$ and when we do we always get $1$. So the neighbors predict that the value of this simpler limit is $1$. That is, $$ \lim_{x \rightarrow 1} \frac{(x-1)(x+1)}{(x-1)} = (1+1) \cdot 1 = 2 \text{.} $$

We are hoping for some sort of balance between the zero-ness from the factor in the numerator and undefined-ness from the factor in the denominator. And that hope is met -- the resulting numerator and denominator both approached zero in exactly the same way, giving the ratio $1$ everywhere we can evaluate it.

Another way to say this is that $x+1$ is the continuous function that agrees with $\displaystyle \frac{(x-1)(x+1)}{(x-1)}$ at every point of the domain of that fraction (which excludes $x = 1$). (More to say about this at the end.)

It is important to note that the "interesting factors" cancelled out. If they do not, the neighbors do not give a sensible prediction for the continuous function obtained by filling in the gap. Consider $\displaystyle \lim_{x \rightarrow 1} \frac{x+1}{x-1}$, having the graph

graph showing vertical asymptote at x = 1

The neighbors to the left of $x=1$ predict the height of the function is less than any number you care to name, which we normally abbreviate to "predict the height $-\infty$". The neighbors to the right predict a height greater than any number you care to name, abbreviated to $\infty$. Since the two sides can't agree on the value to fill in the gap, there is no continuous function that agrees with $\frac{x+1}{x-1}$ away from $x=1$ and is also defined at $x = 1$.

The kind of gap ("discontinuity") in $\frac{(x-1)(x+1)}{(x-1)}$ is called "removable" because the function approaches the same value from the left and from the right. There are other kinds of discontinuity where the left and right don't agree. Particular (named) examples are

  • jump discontinuity, where the approaches from the left and from the right each give a finite prediction for the value in the gap, but do not agree on the value of that prediction. For instance the function $f(x) = \begin{cases} 1 ,& x>0 \\ -1 ,& x < 0 \end{cases}$ at $x = 0$. a step function
  • infinite discontinuity, where the approach from one side or the other (or both) goes to either $\infty$ or $-\infty$. A different example from the one above (with the vertical asymptote) is $f(x) = 2^{-1/x}$. infinite on the left, finite on the right of x=0
  • and there are others. An example of a more exotic discontinuity comes from the function $\sin(1/x)$. It has infinitely many oscillations in a neighborhood of $x = 0$, so the neighbors try to predict every value from $-1$ to $1$ as the value to fill in at $x = 0$. But a function can't take every value in $[-1,1]$ at $x=0$, so this limit fails to exist.

A bit more about the $x+1$: When we factored out the "$x+1$", we were factoring out the part that is continuous at $x = 1$ and leaving in the part that was zero or undefined at $x = 1$ inside and unevaluated. An important property of continuous functions, typically taken as their definition once one has a workable definition of a limit, is that continuous functions agree with their limits at every point of their domain. We know that we can graph $x+1$ without lifting our pencil -- it's a line. So $x+1$ is continuous, so we can evaluate a limit of $x+1$ by just substituting for $x$ the value $x$ is approaching. So we find $\displaystyle \lim_{x \rightarrow 1} x+1 = 1+1 = 2$ because $x+1$ is continuous.

Notice that $\displaystyle \frac{(x-1)(x+1)}{(x-1)}$ is continuous everywhere its denominator is not zero. Consequently, we can evaluate its limits for $x$ approaching any value except $1$ by just substituting in the value $x$ is approaching. The takeaway is that most functions you work with will be continuous at most places -- we need to be able to recognize where a function is discontinuous and recognize that limits will be a little harder to evaluate at discontinuities. But a good starting strategy is to split the function into the part that is continuous there and the part that is discontinuous there, so you can be done with the continuous part immediately by evaluating and focus your efforts on the remaining discontinuous part.

Eric Towers
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  • Much to think about here and many thanks for all answers. I'll need to learn more to even respond properly but for now I'll just say that your graph with the little circle/gap in it is what I'm objecting to. The hyperbolic graph is a different sort of animal since at the 'changeover' the lines are infinitely far apart rather than being infinitely close together.

    If I were designing a suspension bridge with a parabolic cable, notwithstanding that my drawing of the cable would have this 'singularity', the real cable would not -- there would be no point at which the cable is broken.

    – Ray Andrews Sep 26 '19 at 18:13
  • ...so it seems to me at as a description of reality this 'can't divide by zero' rule is superseded by a rule that cancellation obviates the problem. That is, so long as we can cancel out a division by zero, then reality shows us that the division 'never happens' and so we're off the hook and we don't need to create the fiction that the line is not continuous when it clearly is. – Ray Andrews Sep 26 '19 at 18:18
  • @RayAndrews : When you are given a recipe for a function, that is the recipe for the function. If the recipe is undefined somewhere, then the function is undefined there. We can talk about "filling in the holes", but this replaces our function with another function (having a different domain and having a value at the hole) and we may not have any way to write down its recipe other than "use the recipe given for everywhere else and at this one input value, use this output value". ... – Eric Towers Sep 26 '19 at 23:01
  • @RayAndrews : That the example function's recipe has an easy replacement is a convenience of the example. What do you fill $\frac{\sin(x)}{x}$ with at $x = 0$? It's $1$, but how do you get that from the recipe? Also, what recipe do you write down that fills in that hole other than $$f_\text{new}(x) = \begin{cases} \frac{\sin x}{x} ,& x \neq 0 \ 1 ,& x=0 \end{cases}$$? Is there a non-piecewise recipe? How would we find it? – Eric Towers Sep 26 '19 at 23:03
  • Well, is there anything to cancel above and below? If not my whole problem simply isn't there. I'm no fan of x=5/0, you get 'nothing'. So unless their is the canceling of the potentially zero denominator then I have no issue with not being able to divide by zero. Get me? It's just this one particular situation. – Ray Andrews Sep 26 '19 at 23:46
  • @RayAndrews : Yes there is. $\sin(0) = 0$, so $\sin(x)/x$ is a "$0/0$" indeterminate form at $x = 0$. This has to be the case, otherwise there is no way the limit would be $1$ at $x = 0$. But, where are you going to find a factor of $x$ in the numerator? Only being able to deal with removable discontinuities when there's a common factor is less useful that being able to remove all removable discontinuities. – Eric Towers Sep 27 '19 at 01:46
  • @RayAndrews : So $\sin(2x)/x$ is a $0/0$ at $x = 0$ and $\sin(x)/x$ is a $0/0$ at $x = 0$. The first one has the limit $2$ as $x \rightarrow 0$ as one can see from its graph and the second one has the limit $1$ as one can see from its graph. So which of these, $1$ or $2$, do we decide all $0/0$s are? – Eric Towers Sep 27 '19 at 02:10
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    @RayAndrews You started your question by stating that you want to learn calculus. Going beyond this small introductory examples, you will HAVE to accept the fact that limits do not behave intuitively in your finite numbers mindset that we are trying to get you out of here. What about differentiation, where you need to take a limit of a fraction where both the nominator and denominator go to 0 all the time, but get to different results? What about integration, where you have infinitesimally small rectangles where you add up values? What about the limit of sequences, where you add a bunch of 0s? – Nurator Sep 27 '19 at 06:36
  • @RayAndrews Its easy to say right now to stay in your mindset and put these quirks of as "just a small funny example and everything else works fine", but you will get into problems of understanding fundamental calculus things without thinking in an infinite world. – Nurator Sep 27 '19 at 06:38
  • I edited the question, but it's still on hold, how do I know if they still don't like it of if they just haven't gotten around to unfreezing it? – Ray Andrews Sep 27 '19 at 13:13
  • ... but thanks for the feedback guys. Perhaps I have to take this on faith for the time being. However: – Ray Andrews Sep 27 '19 at 13:14
  • ... but thanks for the feedback guys. Perhaps I have to take this on faith for the time being. However:

    "The expression (x−1)(x+1)(x−1) cannot be evaluated at x=1"

    ... except that that's exactly what he does. He just cancels first to avoid the division by zero.

    so sin(x)/x is a "0/0" indeterminate form at x=0

    Yabut my idea is that it would have to be "sin(x)/sin(x)" to be cancelable top and bottom before evaluating 'sin(x)' anyway. "sin(x)/x" does not have that property so we can't cancel it before evaluation.

    – Ray Andrews Sep 27 '19 at 13:21
  • @RayAndrews : He does not evaluate the expression $\frac{(x-1)(x+1)}{x-1}$. He replaces it with an expression that agrees with it everywhere that fraction is defined and is continuous, then evaluates this new expression, $x+1$, at a place where that fraction was not defined. You correctly observe that $f(x) = \sin(x)/x$ does not have an easy cancellation, but there is a continuous replacement that agrees with $f$ everywhere $f$ is defined and that has a value at $x = 0$. This replacement is what we evaluate when we take the limit. – Eric Towers Sep 27 '19 at 13:35
  • @RayAndrews : Another approach... The cancellation you describe is valid inside a limit, but is not valid outside a limit. But the variety of cancellations possible inside the limit is much richer than just cancelling exactly matching factors. $\lim_{x \rightarrow 1} \frac{\sin(2x)}{x} = 2$ is an example. We are doing what you intuition demands: fill in the (removable) discontinuities with the value they have to have (by continuity). What we are not doing is cancelling $0/0$, because there is no consistent value to cancel to. You have examples for both $1$ and $2$. – Eric Towers Sep 27 '19 at 13:50
  • Thanks Eric, I can see that I'm going to just have to ride with this for now -- you refer to lots of stuff I haven't seen yet. It might come clear later. But you do see my issue -- it sure does look like he's avoiding a division by zero by canceling. You can call it 'replacement' but to my simple mind, it looks like canceling. Sheesh, I'm only an hour into this ;-) – Ray Andrews Sep 27 '19 at 13:51
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No, it is not true that $\frac{x\cdot 0}{0} = x$. What is true is that for any $y\neq 0$, $\frac{x\cdot y}{y} = x$.

In calculus we are concerned with limits, such as $\lim_{y \to 0} \frac{x\cdot y}{y}$. If you look carefully at the definition of limit, you'll see that the value of (or even existence of) $\frac{x\cdot 0}{0}$ is irrelevant to the value of this limit. Hence we only need to worry about the value of $\frac{x\cdot y}{y}$ for $y \neq 0$. By what I said in the first paragraph, $\frac{x\cdot y}{y}=x$ whenever $y \neq 0$. And since the limit only cares about $y \neq 0$, we have $\lim_{y\to 0}\frac{x\cdot y}{y}=\lim_{y \to 0} x = x$.

It does not follow from this that $\frac{x\cdot 0}{0}=x$.

kccu
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  • It's just that reality seems to show that x*0/0=x even if our doctrine is that it must be undefined. See what I mean? Division by zero usually produces a nonsense result when applied to a real world problem but in this case is produces a real tangent to a point that supposedly can't exist. Thus I say the point does exist in reality and thus our theory should yield to reality. – Ray Andrews Sep 26 '19 at 18:25
  • Well that's because you haven't looked at $\frac{x \cdot 0}{0}$ from other angles! Say I consider $\frac{x\cdot y^2}{y}$ as $y \to 0$. Again we can cancel one factor of $y$ in the numerator and denominator and have $x \cdot y$. As $y \to 0$ this just goes to $0$. So $\lim_{y \to 0} \frac{x\cdot y^2}{y} = 0$. But if we "plug in" $y=0$ this says $\frac{x\cdot 0}{0}=0$, while you say my first computation says it should be $x$. There is no consistent solution to $\frac{x\cdot 0}{0}$ because depending on how you approach $0$ you get different answers. – kccu Sep 28 '19 at 01:21
  • Nuts, that does stop me dead in my tracks. Well, I wasn't expecting to win this ;-) Mind if you graphed that and we had a perfectly respectable line but with just the limit making a break, then I'd still try to salvage my idea. Back at you when I know a bit more. – Ray Andrews Sep 28 '19 at 02:17
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Well, maybe not the answer you have expected, but division is an operation derived from multiplication. In view of the real numbers,

$$x:y = x\cdot y^{-1}.$$

I.e., the division of $x$ by $y$ is defined as the multiplication of $x$ with $y^{-1}$, the inverse of $y$; the inverse of $y$ is a number $z$ such that $y\cdot z= 1 =z\cdot y$. Since the inverse is uniquely determined if it exists, it is denoted by $y^{-1}$.

In view of the real numbers each number $y\ne 0$ has an inverse, but $0$ not, since $0$ is absorbing: $y\cdot 0 = 0 = 0\cdot y$.

Wuestenfux
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What is happening is that $\frac {(x+1)(x-1)}{x-1}$ has a removable singularity. It is equal to $x+1$ for all $x$ except $x=1$, where it is undefined. You can extend it to a continuous function in the natural way by taking the limit as $x$ approaches $1$. What you have really done is defined a new function $g(x)$ by $$g(x)=\begin {cases} 2&x=1\\\frac {(x+1)(x-1)}{x-1}&\text{otherwise} \end {cases}$$ This is different from the original function because $x=1$ has been added to the domain.

$\frac {xn}n$ works the same way. It equals $x$ for all values of $n$ different from zero. You can extend it continuously to $n=0$ as well. $\frac {0\cdot x}0$ cannot be handled the same way because you don't have any points $x$ where it is defined.

Ross Millikan
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If you look at the two functions $(x-1)(x+1)/(x-1)$ and $(x+1)$, they will look ALMOST the same. For every value $x\neq1$ they are absolutely identitcal, but for $x=1$ the first function is not defined, because you can not define any value to $0/0$. In fact, coming from a complex number perspective you can even find a sequence of values that converge to any arbitrary value you want.

So you can still say what the tangent at $x=1$ will be in the limit of secants, because every value you take in your sequence is valid. But at that point, the function is not continous, it is not differentiable and the value is not defined!

Nurator
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  • The difference is that the domain of the functions are different. If you restrict the domain of $x+1$ to $\mathbb R\setminus{1}$, then the functions are identical. – Rushabh Mehta Sep 26 '19 at 15:17