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I was investigating the following problem and came across an interest result that I would be interested in proving rigorously.

Consider $a,b \in \mathbb{N}$, and plot the point $(a,b)$ on the cartesian plane. If we join a line from $(0,0)$ to $(a,b)$, what is the percentage chance that no other integer co-ordinates lie on that line?

While investigating the above, this led me to consider what happens as the point $(a,b)$ get larger and so I decided to consider what happens in the limit as $a \rightarrow \infty$ and $b \rightarrow \infty$. Intuitively, it feels as though the chance that a line from $(0,0)$ should become less and less likely that it hits $(a,b)$ without having first passed through at least one integer co-ordinate.

This led to me to take the conjecture that, in the limit, the percentage chance of this point satisfying this requirement is $0$%.

In trying to prove this, I came across the following result (which I have not seen a proof for, and so could turn out to be wrong):

Claim: if you draw a line from $(x_1,y_1)$ to $(x_2,y_2)$, then the number of integer co-ordinates on this line will be $ \gcd(|x_2 - x_1|, |y_2 - y_1|)+1$

Therefore, since our starting point is $0$, this tells us that the number of integer co-ordinates on a line from $(0,0)$ to $(a,b)$ must be $\gcd(a,b)+1$. Since the start and end points are both integers, this tells us that a point has no integer co-ordinates along it if and only if $\gcd(a,b)+1 = 2$ (ie. the only integers on the line are the start and end points). Therefore, by rearranging this, we are essentially trying to show that the probability of $\gcd(a,b) = 1$ approaches $0$ as $a,b \rightarrow \infty$.

So if we can show that the probability of $a$ and $b$ being coprime approaches $0$ in the limit (which seems reasonable), then we are done.

Is there a way for me to formalise an argument of this nature (and is what I have done up until this point reasonable)?


Note$_1$: the source for the claim is Quora and it was given without a proof, this does make me somewhat sceptical so as an additional question, I would be interested in knowing whether or not this result is actually try and if there is a proof reference that I could be pointed towards.

Note$_2$: I have tested the above claim for some small numbers and it seems to hold up, but I haven't been able to find anything completely rigorous to show that it holds more generally.

Note$_3$: As pointed out by lulu in the comments, this post will likely be useful as we are specifically considering the edge case of what is computed here.


Edit: as mentioned by @Slugger, we can't really talk about the notion of probability without first considering the distribution of our choices of $a,b$. Really, we only want $a,b$ to be large without any bias beyond this. Therefore, it makes sense to consider a discrete uniform distribution from $n$ to $2n$. We can then take $n \rightarrow \infty$ and this should be equivalent to the problem that I am trying to resolve (note that my choice of the upper bound being $2n$ was arbitrary as in the limit this would be equivalent to a discrete uniform distribution from, for example, $n$ to $3n$).

FD_bfa
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    Oh, wait. Yes, you want the probability at the "edge" of the ball $|a|\leq|N|$. Sorry. – Arturo Magidin Mar 03 '23 at 18:56
  • The desired claim ought to follow from the linked "duplicate". If the probability that two large numbers were coprime wasn't $0$ then the other limit couldn't exist. (Note: I haven't thought that through completely, so I might have it wrong. But I'd start with that). – lulu Mar 03 '23 at 18:59
  • Well, that's why I didn't vote to close it as a duplicate. – lulu Mar 03 '23 at 19:09
  • How are we choosing $a$ and $b$ here? There's no uniform distribution on $\mathbb N$, so this is usually done by picking an upper bound $n$ and choosing uniformly on that. But that of course is what's in the linked question. So are you looking for the probability that $a$ and $b$ are coprime given some condition saying $a$ and $b$ are sufficiently large? Something else? – eyeballfrog Mar 03 '23 at 19:10
  • Now, I am confused. Letting $P9 – lulu Mar 03 '23 at 19:34
  • I think it might. I think the point is that if the limit were positive, then by taking disjoint "rings" that add up to the whole ball you would end up with infinite probability for the limit over the whole ball. – Arturo Magidin Mar 03 '23 at 20:05
  • The point you make was the reason behind the intuition in my question, but I don’t know how to make this rigorous @ArturoMagidin – FD_bfa Mar 03 '23 at 20:44
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    Yeah, I think I have it wrong. Now I am not persuaded that I can attach a good value to the limit. Sorry for having added confusion! – lulu Mar 03 '23 at 23:51
  • The probability should tend to $1/\zeta(2)$ instead of zero. – TravorLZH Mar 04 '23 at 03:45
  • Why doesn't the reasoning in this answer apply just as well when $(a,b) \in [n,2n]\times[n,2n]$ as when $(a,b) \in [1,n]\times[1,n]$? – David K Mar 04 '23 at 04:13
  • ArturoMagidin raised a (seemingly) valid concern regarding there being a problem if the probability is greater than $0$ in the limit. In theory, I understand what you are suggesting, but does this not lead to a contradiction as Arturo suggests? @DavidK – FD_bfa Mar 04 '23 at 04:19
  • @ArturoMagidin I don't see the argument for infinite probability. Looking at the whole ball, in the limit the probability of being in any one ring approaches zero, and the probability over the whole ball is a weighted average of the probabilities in each ring. – David K Mar 04 '23 at 04:27
  • Also, the choice of $a,b \in [n,2n]$ was somewhat arbitrary. I could have easily chosen $a,b \in [n,an]$ for any $a \in \mathbb{N}$ \ ${1 }$. What I was trying to capture was that the probability that uniformly chosen points specifically in the limit were small. However, does our choice of $a$ not then change things, when really our choice of $a$ shouldn't make any difference in the limit? @DavidK – FD_bfa Mar 04 '23 at 04:30
  • If the probability is $6/\pi^2$ in the limit, as I suspect it is, then any $a$ would also give you $6/\pi^2$. – David K Mar 04 '23 at 04:34
  • Thank you for clarifying. Another formulation for the "edge" of the ball could be something like $ { n . . . n + n^{0.5} }$ or something along these lines. I suspect this would be different @DavidK – FD_bfa Mar 04 '23 at 04:37
  • Now you're really concentrating the distribution around the line $a=b.$ Why not just set $a=b$ exactly and be done with it? You get $\gcd(a,b)\neq 1$ then easily. – David K Mar 04 '23 at 04:45
  • My point is that the choice of distribution clearly matters - even in the limit. I chose the uniform distribution from $n$ to $2n$ as my intuition told me that it didn't matter in the limit. However, clearly I am wrong. So my next question is, how do I select the distribution of $a,b$? As mentioned in my question, I am trying to investigate joining a line from $(0,0)$ to $(a,b)$. Is the answer that the probability that a straight line joining the two points passes through no integer co-ordinates is $6/ \pi^2$ as $a$ and $b$ get larger? Or have a made a poor choice of distribution? @DavidK – FD_bfa Mar 04 '23 at 04:55

2 Answers2

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As stated I think the claim is simply wrong. For any $a,b$ we have that $$ \mathbb{P} (a,b,\text{ co-prime}) = \begin{cases} 1 &\text{if $a,b$ are co-prime} \\ 0& \text{otherwise} \end{cases}. $$ Now, $\lim_{a,b\to \infty} f(a,b) = 0$ if and only if for all sequences $(a_n,b_n)$ with $a_n,b_n \to \infty$ we have $\lim_{n\to \infty} f(a_n,b_n) = 0$. However, we may pick $a_n = p_n$, the $n$-th prime, and $b_n = p_n + 1$. Then $$ \lim_{n\to \infty} \mathbb{P}(a_n,b_n \text{ co-prime}) = 1, $$ so that $\lim_{a,b\to\infty} \mathbb{P}(a,b\text{ co-prime})$ cannot be $0$.

Additionally, the sequence $a_n =p_n$ and $b_n = 2p_n$ shows that in fact the limit does not even exist.

I think the intuitive thing you are trying to prove is not captured by the limit you actually give.

Slugger
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  • Thank you for your answer. How might I better formulate what I am trying to say? – FD_bfa Mar 03 '23 at 21:44
  • Whilst it’s certainly possible for to find some sequences (as you have done) that are co-prime in the limit, the idea I was trying to capture is that these have probability 0. – FD_bfa Mar 03 '23 at 21:48
  • Well there needs to be some randomness in the selection of the number in order for the $\mathbb{P}$ to be meaningful. So you need to think about how you are choosing the numbers at random. Maybe you can say something like if $a,b$ are uniformly selected from $n,n+1,\ldots, 2n$ then $\lim_{n\to\infty}\mathbb{P}(a,b \text{ co-prime}) = 0$ – Slugger Mar 03 '23 at 21:49
  • Is $2n$ just an arbitrary cut off point? – FD_bfa Mar 03 '23 at 21:51
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    I do understand what you are trying to say, I think the main problem is that you will find that it is not so easy to formulate correctly what you mean without stating something that is in fact incorrect – Slugger Mar 03 '23 at 21:51
  • @FD_bfa yes it is – Slugger Mar 03 '23 at 21:51
  • Thanks again for your contribution (+1). I'm leaving the question open as I still do have questions about how to prove the final result that I am looking for. Although your answer has helped me to correct the question so that it actually makes sense in the context of the problem I am trying to solve. – FD_bfa Mar 03 '23 at 22:13
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Let's consider the suggestion in the question that we might just as well consider $[n,3n]$ rather than $[n,2n].$

Now suppose that in the limit as $n \to\infty,$ the probability that $a$ and $b$ are coprime when $(a,b)$ is uniformly selected from $[n,3n]\times[n,3n]$ goes to $p.$

In particular, choose $N$ large enough so that for all $n>N,$ the probability that $a$ and $b$ are coprime is between $p - 0.01$ and $p + 0.01$ and also let $N$ be large enough so that $(2n + 1)/(3n) < \frac12.$ Then for any $n>N,$ the probability that $a$ and $b$ are coprime if they are selected instead from $[1,3n]\times[1,3n]$ is no greater than the probability of landing on a coprime pair in the subset $[n,3n]\times[n,3n]$ (which is less than $\frac12 (p + 0.01)$ plus the probability of landing outside $[n,3n]\times[n,3n],$ which is less than $\frac59.$ Hence the probability that $a$ and $b$ are coprime when selected from $[1,3n]\times[1,3n]$ is less than $$ \frac59 + \frac12 (p + 0.01) = \frac59 + 0.005 + \frac12 p < 0.57 + \frac12 p. $$

But we know that in the limit, the probability of picking a coprime pair from $[1,3n]\times[1,3n]$ is $6/\pi^2 > 0.6.$ So $p$ cannot be $0.$


Obviously you can just keep trying new ways to define the limit -- and by the way, any distribution that has $a$ and $b$ independent and is not the uniform distribution over $[1,n]\times[1,n]$ will end up covering only a kind of "cone," not a whole "ball" around the origin of $\mathbb N\times\mathbb N$ -- but at some point I think we have to ask what is the point that we're trying to make.

David K
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  • Thank you for your answer. I'll take some time to digest this now. Something that isn't mentioned is the motivation for choice of distribution. In light of the question, is there, in your opinion, a natural choice of distribution for $a,b$? @DavidK – FD_bfa Mar 04 '23 at 05:20
  • I think there is no canonically obvious choice. One possibility is all pairs such that $a+b=n.$ Another is $\max{a,b}=n.$ – David K Mar 04 '23 at 05:25
  • Wouldn't $ \min {a,b } = n$ be more suitable than $\max$? Since I am trying to investigate the distribution for large $a$ and $b$? For the same reason, $a+b=n$ allows for small values of either $a$ or $b$ as long as the other is large (in the limit). That would compute a quantity that is more relevant for a broader question that investigates large $a$ or $b$ (as opposed to $a$ and $b$). – FD_bfa Mar 04 '23 at 05:28
  • $\min {a,b } = n$ gives you an infinite number of pairs. The reason I'm favoring distributions where one of the numbers might be small is, first, to follow Arturo's notion of using "rings" to build up a "ball" (if you stay away from the lines $a=1$ and $b=1$ you cannot cover the whole ball) and second, the notion that while $a$ and $b$ should both eventually go to $\infty,$ we should allow for the possibility that one gets there much, much slower than the other. – David K Mar 04 '23 at 05:35
  • That makes sense. But is there a way to exclude cases where one of them never reaches $\infty$? Because even though $\max$ does allow for one to arrive more slowly at $\infty$, it does also allow for one of them to converge at a finite natural number (which are cases that I'd like to avoid) – FD_bfa Mar 04 '23 at 05:38
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    If you'd prefer to actually be able to see both $a$ and $b$ growing, you could take $\max{a,b}=n$ with $a>\log n$ and $b>\log n.$ For large $n,$ the difference in size between this set and $\max{a,b}=n$ becomes negligible. It doesn't have to be $\log n,$ just something that grows slowly enough. Even $\sqrt n$ would work, I think. – David K Mar 04 '23 at 05:38
  • That works. I guess the only other question would be how I compute this probability. But I may need to ask that in a separate question (assuming there isn't a short answer or reference I can follow up on) – FD_bfa Mar 04 '23 at 05:42