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Working over ZF but without the Axiom of Choice (AC), assume that the Hahn–Banach Theorem holds for $\ell^\infty$. Does it follow that there exists a set of real numbers that is not Lebesgue measurable?

The motivation for this question is the old question of what would be involved in replacing ZFC by ZF+LM plus some weakened version of AC (here LM denotes the axiom "all sets of reals are Lebesgue measurable"). Now, analysts are accustomed to freely invoking theorems such as Hahn–Banach and Krein–Milman, and are going to dislike having to check some picky logical detail every time they do so. In light of Solovay's model, one naïve hope would be to define some notion of "tame" function space, and prove, using DC (the axiom of dependent choice), that all the standard theorems hold for tame function spaces, and that any function space that arises "in practice" is tame.

Unfortunately, $\ell^\infty$ is not tame. We can see this even without a precise definition of "tame" because by applying the Hahn–Banach theorem to $\ell^\infty$, one can show that $(\ell^\infty)^* \ne \ell^1$. On the other hand, it is known that ZF+DC+BP (Baire property) implies that $(\ell^\infty)^* = \ell^1$.

These inconvenient facts limit our options. One option would be to regard $(\ell^\infty)^* = \ell^1$ as a feature and not a bug; students coming to the subject for the first time might find it to be a pleasant fact. But it might be a hard sell for analysts who have grown up using Hahn–Banach freely and who "know" that $(\ell^\infty)^* \ne \ell^1$.

Another option would be to ignore AC for the moment and just examine the extent to which Hahn–Banach is compatible with LM. That brings me to the stated question.

Timothy Chow
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    Whether or not it's a feature or a bug, working in settings where $(\ell^\infty)^=\ell^1$ breaks some nice features of the category of Banach spaces, unless one redefines the dual space functor in some way (I'm guessing something like $X^$ not a Banach space but some vector space with some kind of localic structure on its "unit ball"). For instance, it is a nice feature of the category Ban that subobjects of reflexive objects are reflexive, and that theorem is lost in the world where $(\ell^\infty)^*=\ell^1$ – Yemon Choi Sep 20 '20 at 23:48
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  • @Nate: That can't be right. We know that free ultrafilters imply the existence of non-measurable sets. But the others seem to be open. – Asaf Karagila Sep 21 '20 at 00:27
  • @AsafKaragila: You're right, I shouldn't have said "ultrafilter". – Nate Eldredge Sep 21 '20 at 02:56
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    According to this answer, it is open whether the existence of a non-principal finitely additive probability measure on $\mathbb{N}$, or a Banach limit, implies the existence of a non-measurable set. Since those are the most obvious objects that one constructs with Hahn-Banach on $\ell^\infty$, this may perhaps be open as well. – Nate Eldredge Sep 21 '20 at 02:57
  • Does anyone even use Hahn-Banach on $l^\infty$? I can't think of a single time I've needed it for any non-separable space. Of course, no choice is needed for Hahn-Banach for separable spaces. – Nik Weaver Sep 21 '20 at 03:08
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    @NikWeaver, I guess HB for $\ell^\infty$ is crucial for the existence of the Dixmier trace which in turn has been used by Connes in applications to non-commutative geometry. – Ruy Sep 21 '20 at 04:06
  • @NikWeaver: Does anyone even use $\ell^\infty$? :P – Asaf Karagila Sep 21 '20 at 07:53
  • @AsafKaragila: Sure, it's the vector space from hell in constructive mathematics, so it gets "used" to scare students: "So you think $\ell^\infty$ has a norm? The devil has stolen your soul!" – Andrej Bauer Sep 21 '20 at 08:45
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    @Andrej: What soul? I thought constructivists don't have a soul, because one cannot construct it, and instead it needs to be axiomatised (and then you either have or you don't, but it's hard to prove uniformly which one). – Asaf Karagila Sep 21 '20 at 08:48
  • @AsafKaragila: Touché! – Andrej Bauer Sep 21 '20 at 09:11
  • @NateEldredge: I finally got Howard and Rubin's book out of the library. The existence of a non-measurable set is Form 93 but, as one might suspect, Hahn-Banach for $\ell^\infty$ isn't a form per se, I didn't see any other implications that obviously settled my question. As for the website, it appears to be totally broken. I couldn't get any of the features to work. – Timothy Chow Oct 01 '20 at 15:42

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