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Problem Statement:

I would like to model the following configuration:

1 Here, a bead of mass $m$ slides down a wire under tension. The wire has density $\rho$. The bead experiences friction in proportion to its speed $v$ along the wire. I would like to describe the velocity of the bead through time.

Large tension limit:

If the tension in the wire is very large, the dynamics of the bead will decouple from those of the wire, and the motion of the bead would be just like a block on a plane with velocity-dependent friction (by assumption, not Coulomb friction). In coordinates along the wire, $$ m \dot{v} = - \gamma v + mg \sin\theta,$$ so the velocity approaches $mg/\gamma\sin\theta$: $$ v(t) = v_0 e^{-\gamma t/m} + \frac{m g \sin\theta}{\gamma}(1-e^{-\gamma t/m}).$$

Moderate tension:

When the tension is not too much larger than $mg$, the wire will be deformed by the mass, so it no longer slides down a straight line. Here's where the problem gets challenging and I have trouble setting up the governing equations. I believe the equation of the wire is something like $$ \rho \frac{\partial^2 \psi}{\partial t^2} = T \frac{\partial^2 \psi}{\partial x^2} +\rho g + m g \delta(x-x_p(t))$$

However the particle coordinates are now very complicated to describe. I believe the most convenient way might be to describe them in the coordinates defined by the shape of the wire, in imitation of the large tension limit, but it is not clear to me exactly how to do this.

If anyone could offer any guidance as to whether my equation for the string is correct and how to set up the equations of motion for the particle I'd be very grateful!

Edit:

In the absence of friction the Lagrangian for the particle is $$ \mathcal{L} = \frac{m}{2}\Big(\dot{x}^2\big[1+\psi_x^2\big]+2\dot{x}\psi_x \psi_t + \psi_t^2 \Big) - m g \psi(x,t).$$ This gives the following equation of motion for the particle constrained to the string (athough there may be some small errors): $$ \ddot{x}[1+\psi_x^2] + 2 \dot{x}\big(\psi_x[\psi_x \dot{x} + \psi_t] + \psi_t[\psi_{xx}\dot{x}+\psi_{xt}] + \psi_x[\psi_{xt}\dot{x}+\psi_{tt}]\big) = \psi_x \dot{x}^2 + \dot{x}[\psi_{xx}\psi_t + \psi_x \psi_{xt}] + \psi_t \psi_{xx} - g\psi_x.$$ This should be solved in conjunction with the driven wave equation above to describe the dynamics. Maybe one can neglect some terms for small displacements to derive an approximate solution?

kevinkayaks
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  • Are you sure that the first formula is ok? The friction term for something sliding down a plane doesn't usually depend on velocity... – John Hunter Jul 23 '21 at 23:50
  • Yeah, it's just a velocity-dependent drag rather than a coulomb friction. I was looking for the dynamics to have a terminal velocity. Regardless it'd be easy enough to modify the problem afterward if I were sure how to formulate the particle dynamics – kevinkayaks Jul 23 '21 at 23:54
  • I would suggest finding y = f(x), then using conservation of energy, where the change in gravitational potential energy must equal the work done by friction plus the change in kinetic energy. I agree with John Hunter that the friction force probably shouldn't be velocity dependent. – g s Jul 24 '21 at 00:30
  • There's nothing wrong with a velocity-dependent drag force. It's intended to represent the fact that the resistance is actually due to the bead "straightening" the rope as it passes over it. It's not a block on a plane. Conservation of energy does seem like a good approach, although not straightforward as one must integrate over the string which has an unknown and changing shape. – kevinkayaks Jul 24 '21 at 00:33
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    I might be mistaken but I think you can start with the assumption that the T=0 case has the same y = f(x) curve as the T>0 case. Then once you have y = f(x), you have $mg\Delta y = E(x) = T(x)+\int F_{friction}(x) dx$. Solve for T(x). Then $v(x) = dx/dt = \sqrt{2T(x)/m}$. Integrate both sides of $dt=dx/v$ to obtain t = f(x), solve for x=f(t), take the derivative to get $dx/dt = f'(t)$ – g s Jul 24 '21 at 00:45
  • last of course apply y=f(x) to get dy/dt for the rest of the velocity vector. – g s Jul 24 '21 at 01:04
  • wait, no, actually $v(x) = \sqrt {(dx/dt)^2 + (dy/dt)^2}$. But since you know y=f(x) you should at least be able to get v(x) = f(dx/dt) and work from there. – g s Jul 24 '21 at 01:13
  • @gs The string function $y=f(x)$ is also changed as the bead slipping: $y(x, t)=\psi(x,t)$, defined in the text. – ytlu Jul 24 '21 at 02:23
  • @ytlu I meant for (x,y) being the position of the bead, not the configuration of the string. – g s Jul 24 '21 at 02:29
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    @g $mg\Delta y \ne T(x) + ..$ and there is no way to know $y(x,t) = f(x(t))$. – ytlu Jul 24 '21 at 02:35
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    As the bead sliding down, could it generate a wave propagation along the string? or simply consider a bending at the position of the bead? – ytlu Jul 24 '21 at 02:43
  • exactly @ytlu, yes, it could. One needs to solve the newtonian dynamics of the bead in conjunction with the driven wave equation for the string. The string's displacement could be eliminated from the problem but in general there is complex dissipation originating from the string's dynamics. It's therefore not clear how to apply energy conservation in my view. – kevinkayaks Jul 24 '21 at 03:03
  • @kevinkayaks I am not sure about your meaning. Do you mean to adopt a small amplitude limit, and therefore, the displacement of the string is negligible? left only a energy dissipation of the wave via the $mg \delta(x-x_p)$ in the wave string equation? But there exists a obvious bending of the string at the position of $x_p(t)$. This seems to contradict to your elimination of the string's displacement. – ytlu Jul 24 '21 at 04:36
  • By eliminate I mean that one should be able to write the particle dynamics as $\ddot{x}_p(t) = F(x_p,\dot{x}_p,\psi(x))$, then express the string dynamics from a driven wave equation as above, then perhaps solve the wave equation for arbitrary $x_p$ and plug its solution $\psi$ (parameterized by $x_p$ into the particle dynamics equation, giving a complex Newton's law for the particle dynamics which does not include the string explicitly. This is my idea anyway. The string should move and dissipate energy from the particle motion, regardless. – kevinkayaks Jul 24 '21 at 04:53
  • y(x) is describe hanging chain ? cosh function – Eli Jul 24 '21 at 06:19
  • $y(x)$ would be a parabola Eli if the bead were not present and the string were at equilibrium – kevinkayaks Jul 24 '21 at 06:21
  • @kevinkayaks Conservation of energy would probably be best, as mentioned by @ g s . Include terms for the extension of the wire $E=0.5kx^2$, where $x$ is extension, heat generated by friction $Fd$ where $d$ is the distance travelled along the wire and the change in GPE and then you can find the increase in K.E. hence the speed – John Hunter Jul 24 '21 at 08:24
  • The distance travelled depends on the shape of the string, the string carries kinetic energy, the work done by friction is not $F d$ because the friction is velocity dependent, not coulomb, and there is not a unique particle velocity as a function of time without also constraining the string's dynamics to minimize its action – kevinkayaks Jul 24 '21 at 08:48
  • It is very strange to call this question a "homework problem". This is not a bead on a rigid wire as in introductory mechanics. I suggest to whoever voted to close to actually attempt the problem. – kevinkayaks Jul 29 '21 at 19:50
  • @kevinkayaks This wasn't closed because users thought it was like the rigid wire case, nor because users thought it was trivial. PSE is not a site that does worked problems, no matter the difficulty of the problem. I suggest reading the links in the close banner; they should make things clearer. – BioPhysicist Jul 29 '21 at 19:58
  • @BioPhysicist that's 'interesting'. https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/509358/why-do-the-expressions-for-an-object-rolling-down-an-incline-not-depend-on-the-c/509360#509360, https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/459221/how-is-it-possible-that-multiple-overtones-can-exist-at-the-same-time/459242#459242, https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/514142/taking-the-hamiltonian-eigenvalue-problem-into-position-space/514145#514145, https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/580088/how-does-a-drums-membrane-oscillate/580101#580101 – kevinkayaks Jul 29 '21 at 20:14
  • @kevinkayaks If you think those questions should be closed you can flag them as such :) – BioPhysicist Jul 29 '21 at 20:31

1 Answers1

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I propose a scheme - quasi-static approximation, by assuming the string always maintains in a static solution as the bead is moving. Let me start with describing the string without a bead. $$ \rho \frac{\partial^2 y(x, t)}{\partial t^2} = T \frac{\partial^2 y(x,t)}{\partial x^2} -\rho g. $$ For a static solution, $\frac{\partial y(x)}{\partial t} = 0$, the solution is a quadratic function for given two boundary conditions $y(x_1) = y_1$ , and $y(x_2) = y_2$: \begin{align*} y(x) &= \frac{g}{2v^2}x^2 + A x + B.\tag{1}\\ A &= \frac{y_2 - y_1}{x_2 - x_1} - \frac{g}{2v^2} (x_2 + x_1);\tag{2} \\ B &= \frac{y_1 x_2 - y_2 x_1}{x_2 - x_1} + \frac{g}{2v^2} x_1 x_2.\tag{3} \end{align*} where $v=\sqrt{\frac{T}{\rho}}$ is the string wave speed. This provides us the basic function for the next step. An example is given in following figure with parameter $\rho=1$, $T=20$. A rather loose string for clear observation of the quadratic function. (note that this is different from the catenary problem, free hanging rope, due to the assumption of a constant tension.)

enter image description here

With this basic knowledge, we add the bead at the fixed position, $x_p$. The static equation: $$ 0 = T \frac{\partial^2 y(x,t)}{\partial x^2} -\rho g - mg \delta(x-x_p). $$ We divide the solution into two region: $$ y(x) = \Big\{ { \begin{array}{rr} \frac{g}{2v^2} x^2 + A_1 x + B_1 & \text{ for } x_1 < x < x_p \\ \frac{g}{2v^2} x^2 + A_2 x + B_2 & \text{ for } x_p < x < x_2 \end{array} } \tag{4} $$

Similar as Eq.2 and Eq.3, find $A$s and $B$s parameters in the interval $[x_1, x_p]$, and $[x_p, x_2]$ assume $y(x_p) = y_p$.

\begin{align*} A_1 &= \frac{y_p - y_1}{x_p - x_1} - \frac{g}{2v^2} (x_p + x_1); \\ B_1 &= \frac{y_1 x_p - y_p x_1}{x_p - x_1} + \frac{g}{2v^2} x_1 x_p.\\ A_2 &= \frac{y_2 - y_p}{x_2 - x_p} - \frac{g}{2v^2} (x_p + x_2); \\ B_2 &= \frac{y_p x_2 - y_2 x_p}{x_2 - x_p} + \frac{g}{2v^2} x_2 x_p. \end{align*}

Then, the connection formula at $x= x_p$ \begin{align*} \left[\frac{\partial y}{\partial x}\right]_{x_p^+} -\left[\frac{\partial y}{\partial x}\right]_{x_p^-} & = \frac{mg}{T}\\ A_2 - A_1 & = \frac{mg}{T} \tag{5}\\ \end{align*}

From Eq.5, we find the function $y_p(x_p)$: $$ y_p(x_p) = y_2\frac{x_p-x_1}{x_2-x_1} +y_1\frac{x_2-x_p}{x_2-x_1} -\frac{mg}{T} \frac{(x_2-x_p)(x_p-x_1)}{x_2-x_1} - \frac{g}{2v^2} (x_2-x_p)(x_p-x_1)\tag{6} $$

The following figure shows the Eq.4, and Eq.6 for $\rho=1$, $T=200$, $m=10$ with $x_p = 0.7$ For large tension ($200$), the qudratic functions in both regions are very closed to linear lines.

enter image description here

In this figure, the force directions are marked: the tension $T_1$ , and $T_2$ in the tangential direction of Eq.4 with discontinue directive between them, the gravitational $mg$ in the $-\hat y$ direction, and dragging force $-bv$ in the tangential of $y_p(x_p)$. All these forces may be decomposed in $x$ and $y$ components for computing the force along the tangential of $y_p(x_p)$, which is the moving direction of the bead $m$. $$ \begin{array}{llc} \text{Moving direction} & \hat t = \frac{1}{\sqrt{1+\left(\frac{dy_p}{dx_p}\right)^2}}\left(\hat x + \hat y\frac{dy_p}{dx_p}\right)& \text{ Eq.6} \\ \text{Tension up } &\vec T_1= \frac{T}{\sqrt{1+\left(\frac{dy}{dx}\right)_{x_p^-}^2}}\left(\hat x + \hat y\frac{dy}{dx}\right)_{x_p^-}& \text{ Eq.4 (a)} \\ \text{Tension down } &\vec T_2=\frac{T}{\sqrt{1+\left(\frac{dy}{dx}\right)_{x_p^+}^2}} \left(\hat x + \hat y\frac{dy}{dx}\right)_{x_p^+} &\text{ Eq.4 (b)}\\ \text{Bead mass } & \vec F_g = mg \hat y & \\ \text{Dragging } & \vec f_d =-\gamma v \hat t & \\ \end{array} $$ where \begin{align*} \frac{dy_p}{dx_p} &= \frac{y_2-y_1}{x_2-x_1}+\frac{mg}{T}\frac{2x_p-x_2-x_1}{x_2-x_1} +\frac{g}{2v^2}\left(2x_p - x_2- x_1\right);\\ \left(\frac{dy}{dx}\right)_{x_p^-} &= \frac{g}{v^2} x_p + A_1;\\ \left(\frac{dy}{dx}\right)_{x_p^+} &= \frac{g}{v^2} x_p + A_2; \end{align*}

Finally, the equation of motion for the bead along the $y_p(x_p)$ curve: $$ m\frac{dv}{dt} = -\gamma v + \vec F_g \cdot \hat t - \vec T_1 \cdot \hat t + \vec T_2 \cdot \hat t. $$ The bead is constrained to move along the cureve $y_p(x_p)$, therrfore, there are constrain forces in the vertical direction of $\hat t$, which are not shown in the figure.

ytlu
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