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Suppose it requires a certain amount of fuel to accelerate a car (or a spaceship) from 0 to a speed $v_1$ (in some initial frame of reference). Let's ignore all friction forces, and only consider classical mechanics (at low speeds, we can safely ignore special relativity).

How much more fuel would it require to accelerate from 0 to $v_2$, with $v_2 = 2 \times v1$?

I have two contradictory answers.

On one hand, $E=\frac{1}{2} mv^2$, so doubling the speed multiplies the kinetic energy by 4, so we need to provide 4 times more energy (thus 4 times more fuel).

As an example, let's take $m = 2000Kg$ and $v_1 = 100m/s$.

  • To go from 0 to $100m/s$, we need to provide $E=\frac{1}{2} \times 2000 \times 100^2 = 10000000J = 10MJ$.
  • To go from 0 to $200m/s$, we need to provide $E=\frac{1}{2} \times 2000 \times 200^2 = 40000000J = 40MJ$, that is 4 times more.

On the other hand, once the car (or spaceship) is at $v_1$ in the initial frame of reference R0, we can consider a new frame of reference R1 where the car/spaceship is at rest. Then we are exactly in the same situation as at the beginning, and we can accelerate one more time from 0 to $v_1$ in R1 (so from 0 to $v_2$ in R0). According to the principle of relativity, there is no reason why accelerating from 0 to $v_1$ in R1 would consume more fuel than when accelerating from 0 to $v_1$ in R0. Thus, we can conclude that the same amount of fuel is consumed to go from 0 to $v_1$ as from $v_1$ to $v_2$ (in R0), therefore twice the speed requires twice more fuel.

To take the same example:

  • To go from 0 to $100m/s$ in R0, we need to provide $E=\frac{1}{2} \times 2000 \times 100^2 = 10000000J = 10MJ$.
  • To go from 0 to $100m/s$ in R1, we need to provide $E=\frac{1}{2} \times 2000 \times 100^2 = 10000000J = 10MJ$.
  • So to go from 0 to $200m/s$ in R0, we need to provide $10 + 10 = 20MJ$, that is twice more.

Which one is wrong?


This question has been marked as a duplicate of Work done changes between reference frames? However, while related (kinetic energy with a change of reference frame), the question is not the same. For example, the accepted answers says:

The key to unraveling the paradox is to recognize that when the flight attendant pushes the cart forward, he is pushing the rest of the plane backwards by some small velocity.

This does not apply here, and nothing allows to answer the question how much more fuel (2× or 4×) would be required to double the speed.

rom1v
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  • Keep in mind that you are accelerating, therefore the principle of relativity does not hold. You can't just move between non-inertial frames of reference without changing your equations. – Matteo Campagnoli Dec 07 '22 at 12:20
  • "Keep in mind that you are accelerating" → the spaceship is accelerating, but we can consider the inertial frame of reference R1 at speed $v_1$ relative to R0, and the principle of relativity holds. Intuitively, just consider that we first accelerate from 0 to 100m/s, then keep an inertial motion for a certain duration (no fuel consumption), then accelerate again. – rom1v Dec 07 '22 at 12:40
  • Also related: https://physics.stackexchange.com/q/230054/123208 – PM 2Ring Dec 07 '22 at 12:56
  • A relevant answer in another thread: https://space.stackexchange.com/a/18003/50180 – rom1v Dec 26 '22 at 16:32

4 Answers4

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The issue with your contradictory answers is that you are neglecting the conservation of momentum. Both energy and momentum must be conserved, not just energy.

In order for a car or a spaceship or any other object to accelerate it must exchange momentum with something. In the case of a car it is exchanging momentum with the earth, and in the case of the rocket it is exchanging momentum with the exhaust. Regardless of the specific mechanism used, there is always necessarily some exchange of momentum.

So let's say that your vehicle of mass $m$ is interacting with another object (e.g. the earth or the exhaust) of mass $M$. They start off with velocities $v_i$ and $V_i$ respectively. Some fuel is expended which increases the kinetic energy by an amount $W$. As a result of the interaction the objects change their velocities to $v_f$ and $V_f$ respectively.

Conservation of momentum gives: $$m v_i + M V_i = m v_f + M V_f$$ and conservation of energy gives: $$\frac{1}{2} m v_i^2 + \frac{1}{2} M V_i^2 + W = \frac{1}{2} m v_f^2 + \frac{1}{2} M V_f^2$$ A little bit of algebra gives $$W=\frac{m}{2M}(v_f-v_i)\left[m(v_f-v_i)+M(v_f+v_i-2V_i)\right] $$

This $W$ gives the amount of fuel consumed. Notice that it is independent of the reference frame. Suppose that we transform to a frame moving at $u$ relative to the first frame. Then $v'_i = v_i + u$ and similarly for all other velocities. Then, in the formula for $W$ we have: $$W'=\frac{m}{2M}(v'_f-v'_i)\left[m(v'_f-v'_i)+M(v'_f+v'_i-2V'_i)\right] $$$$=\frac{m}{2M}(v_f +u-v_i-u)\left[m(v_f+u-v_i-u)+M(v_f+u+v_i+u-2V_i-2u)\right]$$$$=\frac{m}{2M}(v_f-v_i)\left[m(v_f-v_i)+M(v_f+v_i-2V_i)\right] =W $$

So the amount of fuel consumed is independent of the reference frame. The apparent contradiction comes from neglecting the conservation of momentum. There must be some other object to exchange momentum, whether that is the rocket exhaust, the earth, or (in the case of the "duplicate") an airplane.

As an example, let's take $m = 2000Kg$ and $v_1 = 100m/s$.

  • To go from 0 to $100m/s$, we need to provide $E=\frac{1}{2} \times 2000 \times 100^2 = 10000000J = 10MJ$.
  • To go from 0 to $200m/s$, we need to provide $E=\frac{1}{2} \times 2000 \times 200^2 = 40000000J = 40MJ$, that is 4 times more.

So, if this is a car then $v_i = V_i = 0 \mathrm{\ m/s}$, $m= 2000 \mathrm{\ kg}$, and $M=5.97 \ 10^{24} \mathrm{\ kg}$ and indeed, we find that for $v_f=100 \mathrm{\ m/s}$ we get $W=10 \mathrm{\ MJ}$ while for $v_f= 200 \mathrm{\ m/s}$ we get $W=40 \mathrm{\ MJ}$. So your first scenario is plausible.

once the car (or spaceship) is at $v_1$ in the initial frame of reference R0, we can consider a new frame of reference R1 where the car/spaceship is at rest. Then we are exactly in the same situation as at the beginning, and we can accelerate one more time from 0 to $v_1$ in R1

So, in the new reference frame we are not exactly in the same situation as before. In this case we have $v_i=0 \mathrm{\ m/s}$ but $V_i=-100 \mathrm{\ m/s}$. Then for $v_f=100 \mathrm{\ m/s}$ we get $W=30 \mathrm{\ MJ}$. So by correctly accounting for the fact that we are exchanging momentum with the Earth which is moving we get that the work is as expected in both frames.

I leave it as an interesting exercise to calculate both scenarios for a rocket with, e.g. $M=1 \mathrm{\ kg}$

Dale
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    Thank you very much for your answer (it took me some time to re-do the algebra myself, but I finally managed to do it). "So, in the new reference frame we are not exactly in the same situation as before." → Indeed… for the car. – rom1v Dec 22 '22 at 15:45
  • "I leave it as an interesting exercise to calculate both scenarios for a rocket with, e.g. M=1 kg" → IINM what remains is basically $W=\frac{m^2}{2M}(v_f-v_i)^2$ (the other part is negligible). So for $v_f=100$, $W=20GJ$ and for $v_f=200$, $W=80GJ$. And here, I still could not understand: in the spaceship case, it seems to me that at $v_1$ we are exactly in the same situation as the beginning (the remaining fuel is on board, let's neglect the mass difference due to the consumed fuel), so we can accelerate from 0 to $v_1$ twice, which would require "only" $40GJ$ :/ – rom1v Dec 22 '22 at 15:46
  • @rom1v note that $\frac{m^2}{2M}(v_f-v_i)^2$ is clearly invariant. Changing to the other frame gives $\frac{m^2}{2M}(v_f-v_i)^2=\frac{m^2}{2M}((v'_f-u)-(v'_i-u))^2=\frac{m^2}{2M}(v'_f-v'_i)^2$. I am not sure if the issue you are experiencing is that the "negligible" part becomes non-negligible in another frame or if it is that you are burning the rocket once in one case and twice in the other case. You have to do the same number of burns because that changes the velocity of the exhaust – Dale Dec 22 '22 at 17:19
  • The issue I am (still) experiencing is that making the spaceship go from $0$ to $200m/s$ requires $80GJ$, but making it go from $0$ to $100m/s$ requires $20GJ$, and once at $100m/s$, we can consider the spaceship at rest in its frame of reference, and then it requires "only" additional $20GJ$ to go from $0$ to $100m/s$ (that is $100m/s$ to $200m/s$ in the original frame of reference), so a total of $40GJ$. I don't understand how in the spaceship example W is not linear relative to the speed of the spaceship. Where is my error? – rom1v Dec 22 '22 at 18:05
  • @rom1v remember, this is not a realistic rocket. A real rocket throws off mass continuously. Our toy model is throwing mass off in chunks. Throwing mass off as two chunks or one chunk is physically different. Throwing mass off as one chunk at one speed vs one chunk at a different speed is the same. Throwing mass off as two chunks at one pair of speeds vs two chunks at a different pair of speeds is the same. – Dale Dec 22 '22 at 19:03
  • "remember, this is not a realistic rocket. A real rocket throws off mass continuously." → I'm not sure to understand why this is important. We could consider that we were throwing mass continuously between $0$ and $100m/s$, and also continuously between $100m/s$ and $200m/s$ ($M$ is negligible anyway compared to $m$ in this example). My problem is that the amount of fuel required being proportional to the square of the speed ($v_f-v_i)^2$) looks like it violates the principle of relativity (it requires more fuel to go from $0$ to $200m/s$ than from $0$ to $100m/s$ twice-in-a-row). – rom1v Dec 23 '22 at 11:03
  • @rom1v it does require more fuel to go from 0 to 200 m/s than from 0 to 100 m/s twice in a row. That does not violate the principle of relativity. Those are two different physical situations. What would violate relativity is if it required a different amount of fuel to go from 0 to 200 m/s compared to going from -100 to +100 m/s. Or if it required more fuel to go from 0 to 100 m/s and then 100 to 200 m/s vs going from -100 to 0 m/s and then 0 to 100 m/s. Relativity does not enforce any relationship between different physical scenarios, only between the same scenario from different frames – Dale Dec 23 '22 at 14:25
  • "Those are two different physical situations." → The key point I don't understand is how the initial situation (the spaceship is at rest, before it started) is different from the situation after it accelerated to reach a constant speed of $100m/s$ (or any other constant speed), because then it is at rest in a new inertial frame of reference (having a linear uniform motion relative to the initial frame of reference). – rom1v Dec 23 '22 at 17:18
  • @rom1v look at the exhaust. In one case you have one 2 kg cloud of exhaust all going at the same velocity. In the other case you have two 1 kg clouds of exhaust with 100 m/s difference in velocity for the two clouds. That is why it is two different physical situations. Pick either situation and you will get the same answer in any reference frame. – Dale Dec 23 '22 at 18:19
  • There is indeed this small difference, but it looks completely negligible to me. Concretely, we have seen that to go from $0$ to a constant $100m/s$, it requires $20GJ$. In that new inertial frame of reference, how much energy is needed to go from $0$ to $100m/s$? – rom1v Dec 23 '22 at 21:35
  • @rom1v it can be dangerous to assume something is negligible. I encourage you to calculate the difference in the KE of the exhaust in the two different scenarios. Is it in fact negligible? – Dale Dec 23 '22 at 22:11
  • Let's not assume it is negligible. Once the spaceship has accelerated to reach a constant speed of $100m/s$ (expressed in the initial frame of reference), e.g. by throwing $M=1Kg$ of exhaust and consuming $20GJ$ of energy, it is as rest in a new inertial frame of reference (moving at $100m/s$ relative to the initial one). From there, how much more energy/fuel is needed to go from $0$ to $100m/s$ (by throwing one more time $M=1Kg$ of exhaust)? – rom1v Dec 24 '22 at 11:48
  • @rom1v You can plug it into the formula. To move a mass of $m=2000\mathrm{\ kg}$ from $v_i=V_i$ to $v_f=v_i+ 100 \mathrm{\ m/s}$ using $M=1\mathrm{\ kg}$ reaction mass requires $W=20\mathrm{\ GJ}$ regardless of $v_i$. Please do the math to confirm – Dale Dec 24 '22 at 12:58
  • Exactly. So we need $20GJ$ to go from $0$ to $100m/s$. In that new inertial frame of reference, we need $20GJ$ to go from $0$ to $100m/s$. So actually, we went from $0$ to $200m/s$ (in the initial frame of reference) with only $40GJ$ (compared to $80GJ$ that we calculated). If we split into more steps (e.g.four times $0$ to $50m/s$), we could use even less energy, hence the contradiction. – rom1v Dec 24 '22 at 16:14
  • Again, there is no contradiction. It is physically different to do one burst of exhaust at one speed vs two bursts of exhaust at two speeds. Getting different W for different physical scenarios is expected. At this point we are going in circles. Further discussion is unlikely to be helpful, just do the math until it becomes familiar. Btw, the whole going to a new frame at 0 is a red herring. If you do two bursts it doesn’t matter if they are from (0 to 100 and 0 to 100) vs (0 to 100 then 100 to 200) vs (1000 to 1100 then -800 to -700). They are all physically the same. Do the math to confirm – Dale Dec 24 '22 at 17:55
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The argument is valid that, in the frame of a rocket, when determining how much energy is expended to accelerate to a new velocity different by $\Delta v$, its velocity in another frame should not matter. So, the energy needed for a rocket to go from 0 km/s to 1 km/s or from 1 km/s to 2 km/s should be the same, even though $\frac{m}{2} (v_f^2 - v_i^2)$ triples in this case. But, it is not valid for a car because, in the frame of the car, the road is moving backward faster at higher speeds and it is harder to accelerate by pushing against a faster moving road.

For rockets, the total motion of the Earth, including Large Scale, MW, Solar, and Earth motion, is about 600 km/s. To accelerate a kg on the earth by 1 m/s requires 0.5 Joules and not $((6E5+1)^2 - 6E5^2)/2 = 6E5 Joules. When determining the kinetic energy of a system and the work done to achieve that kinetic energy one needs to specify the frame of reference. In the frame of a rocket in space, the work expended must depend on v to the first power, because it always accelerates from its present rest frame velocity, 0 km/s.

Work to reach $v_f$ in the rocket frame of reference

Rather than give philosophical explanations, we can directly find what the rocket equation implies for the energy requirements to attain final velocity $v_f$. We will assume the rocket expels gas at constant velocity $v_e$. The rocket equation is often written as: $$ m_f = m_i e^{-v_f/v_e}, $$ where $m_i$ is the rocket's initial mass and $m_f$ is the final mass. The mass of the gas expelled is $$ m_{gas} = m_i - m_f = m_i(1 - e^{-v_f/v_e}).$$ The energy, or work, expended, in the frame of the rocket, is the amount of energy to accelerate the propellant mass used to velocity $v_e$: $$ W = \frac{m_{gas }v_e^2}{2} = \frac{m_i}{2}(1-e^{-v_f/v_e})v_e^2$$

We can examine the case where not too much of the initial mass has been used up as propellant, so that means $v_f \ll v_e$, and the work simplifies to approximately: $$ W \approx \frac{m_i v_f v_e}{2}$$

The energy expended goes as the first power of $v_f$.

Instantaneous Power in the rest frame of reference

But wait you say, both frames of reference agree on how much propellant is used and how much energy is held in a liter of propellant. So, they must agree on the energy being spent per second. What is the power consumption as seen in the rest frame? Well, the energy carried away in rocket propellant exhaust per second is, $$ P_p = - \frac{\dot{m}}{2}(v_e-v)^2,$$ where the mass of the rocket is decreasing so $\dot{m}$ is negative. And the power going into accelerating the rocket is, $$ P_r = \frac{\partial{(mv^2/2)}}{\partial{t}} = mva + \frac{\dot{m}v^2}{2}$$ The conservation of momentum requires $ ma = -\dot{m} v_e$ which we can use in the first term of $P_r$, $$P_r = -\dot{m}\left(v_ev - \frac{v^2}{2}\right)$$ We can rewrite $P_p$ as, $$P_p = -\dot{m}\left(\frac{v_e^2}{2} - v_ev + \frac{v^2}{2}\right).$$ Finally, adding the power going into the rocket and the fuel together we get the total power supplied by burning the propellant: $$ P_T = P_r + P_p = \frac{-\dot{m}v_e^2}{2}$$ So even in the rest frame, the power spent to accelerate at a slowly varying rate $a = \frac{-\dot{m}v_e}{m}$ does not depend on the velocity.

As an aside, the unfortunate thing about rocket kinematic is that while $v < v_e$ one is expending more energy than $\frac{1}{2}m_i v^2$ and when $v > v_e$ most of the mass of the rocket is used as fuel. But at least, going from 1 m/s to 2 m/s is not 3 times harder than going from 0 m/s to 1 m/s.

eshaya
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On the other hand, once the car (or spaceship) is at 1 in the initial frame of reference R0, we can consider a new frame of reference R1 where the car/spaceship is at rest. Then we are exactly in the same situation as at the beginning

For a rocket, yes you can do this. Since you've spent the energy to bring the reaction mass up to speed, this is valid.

For a car, you can't do this. The car pushes against the earth. In the frame where the car is at rest, the earth is moving backward at high speed. Because of that difference, it takes more energy for the same acceleration.

BowlOfRed
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Suppose it requires a certain amount of fuel to accelerate a car (or a spaceship) from 0 to a speed v1 (in some initial frame of reference). Let's ignore all friction forces, and only consider classical mechanics (at low speeds, we can safely ignore special relativity).

How much more fuel would it require to accelerate from 0 to v2 , with v2=2×v1 ?

If the mass of the fuel is small compared to the mass of the car and the fuel burns at a constant rate, then the amount of fuel burned is linearly proportional to the time.

The acceleration required to achieve a given velocity is:

$$a = \frac{v-v_o}{t-t_o}$$

If the acceleration remains constant, then:

$$ a = \frac {v_1}{ t_1} = \frac {v_2}{ t_2}$$

If $v_2 = 2v_1$ then $t_2 = 2t_1$

So if it takes $t$ to burn $m_{fuel}$ then twice the time requires twice the fuel.

This holds true for cars at typical speeds up to 200 mph.

For rockets at high speeds, the fuel mass is no longer negligible and the fuel burned is no longer linearly proportional to time.

The Tsiolkovsky equation is used for rockets and is a function of fuel mass and exhaust velocities:

$$\Delta v = v_{exhaust}ln(\frac{m_o}{m_f})$$

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsiolkovsky_rocket_equation

Stevan V. Saban
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