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Textbooks giving an intro to field theory (and sometimes advanced quantum mechanics) often casually remark (in chapter one or two) that ordinary Coulomb scattering, or that classical electrostatics, or even classical electrodynamics, can be understood in the form of the exchange of "an infinite number" of "soft photons" in the "infrared limit". Sometimes, vague hints are made of the "IR divergence" of QED. Such statements are never made precise (no formulas are written down; no limits are taken). An obvious suggestion is made that one must take the photon energy to zero as one takes the number of exchanged photons to infinity (while still somehow staying at the "tree level"; this is, of course, absurd if taken at face value, as exchanging more than one photon implies a Feynman diagram with a loop in it, and so obviously no longer at tree level.) One is encouraged to think of some (thermal!?) bath of an infinite number of soft photons somehow doing the things that electrostatics does.

The questions: can this idea be formalized? Can explicit formulas, sums or integrals, and a limit of an "infinite number of photons" be written? Can one legitimately think of a bath of photons, or is this just a wholly misleading physical interpretation (that should be discarded?) If one can think this way, in what sense would those photons be "thermal" (if at all) or would they necessarily be coherent (the relative phases sum in the integrals?)

There are three existing questions that ask something similar:

and

The last post contains a (sort-of) "correct" but disappointing answer, that dodges the question with a sleight-of-hand. It just shows (in a round-about way) that the conventional QED Feynman diagram photon propagator is the Fourier transform of the Coulomb potential. But this is, in a sense, "obvious" or "trivial". To recap: Yes, of course the light waves of classical E&M are described with a wave equation, which is the (4D Minkowski) Laplacian (d'Alembertian) which of course has a Fredholm alternative aka the "Green's function" which of course can be written as the conventional Feynman propagator $1/{|p-p^{'}|}^2$ in momentum space, and has the Fourier transform $1/r$ in position space. (The Yukawa potential works exactly the same way for the Klein-Gordon eqn.) But all this is "just" a mathematical statement about Fourier transforms of Green's functions (Fredholm kernels). Something analogous holds generically in arbitrary dimensions and general settings on (pseudo-)Riemannian manifolds: this is often presented in math books, without any of the physics trimmings; these provide all the care to get all the mathematical details just so. It often boils down to an articulation of duality.

The above answer is disatisfying because it dodges the physical intuition that somehow a constant, uniform electric field (say, between capacitor plates) can be thought of as "a bath of soft photon exchanges". So, again, is this idea of a bath of photons even correct? How did it come to be? If it is appropriate, how can it be formalized?

(FWIW, I'm also not asking for an articulation of the electromagnetic stress tensor $F_{\mu\nu}$ or $F=DA$ or any of that, as this is again "conventional" diff geom and not relevant to the question.)

Qmechanic
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Linas
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    This picture of infinite photons is not useful, and user ChiralAnomaly provides a comment to that effect in your link to this question https://physics.stackexchange.com/q/622387/ – KF Gauss Apr 10 '23 at 05:20
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    Photon states are just a basis for describing an arbitrary state of the electromagnetic field, any configuration (including static ones) in a free theory can be exactly written in a series of multi-photon states. – AfterShave Apr 10 '23 at 05:33
  • @AfterShave Hmm. OK, So you're saying I should just write a big ket $|\psi_1, \psi_2, \cdots>$ of single-particle states $\psi_n$, adjust all the momenta to zero, the polarizations as desired, and then just call it a day? I guess ... that ... could ... actually work. I guess that is the, uh, "obvious" answer. Hmm. Let me sleep on that. Thanks. – Linas Apr 10 '23 at 05:55
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    The OP is mixing two things: the coherent states, where the numbers of photons are not well defined, roughly correspond to classical em waves, where quantum fluctuations are much smaller than the amplitude - this is classical-quantum transition. Deriving static fields from soft photons (i.e., photons with very low frequency) is a different issue (this does not require transition to classical field.) – Roger V. Apr 10 '23 at 06:13
  • A "static" electric field configuration does not exist to begin with. Two charges will inevitably attract or repel, i.e. there is always a (slow) motion associated with the free field in such scenarios. If we want to create "static" fields, then we have to include a piece of matter that separates the charges and that holds them at some fixed distance. This will inevitably lead to a system with vibrations (phonons) and other internal excitations and a complex spectrum. The mere idea that QED would magically model a textbook 1/r electrostatic field is already completely unphysical. – FlatterMann Apr 10 '23 at 07:12
  • I will go one step further: electrostatics breaks the relativity principle, so it should be fundamentally impossible to derive it from a relativistic theory, at least not without a hidden violation of the theory. The most simple two charge problem has a well known quantum mechanical solution: it's the hydrogen atom/positronium. There is nothing "less" than that. – FlatterMann Apr 10 '23 at 17:52
  • Hi @RogerVadim sorry for the confusion. The word "coherent" has several different meanings in physics. One common usage is "coherent states" which are eigenstates of the ladder operator. The other usage is much simpler: the addition of two quantities, preserving the phase relationship between them. For example, the decomposition of "pure states" is always "coherent"; whereas the sums in "mixed states" are always "incoherent", by definition (they're distributions). I'll see if I can alter the wording to avoid this confusion. – Linas Apr 12 '23 at 16:48
  • The meanings that you cited is how coherence us understood in quantum mechanics. There's a lot more in physics - any field dealing with waves plus quantum optics, where coherence is somewhat of a separate science. – Roger V. Apr 12 '23 at 18:35
  • Yes, I want to avoid quantum optics; there's a vast amount of interesting stuff there, but (I think) it all seems irrelevant for this question. The richness and large variety of interesting effects would seem to only distract and confuse the issue here. For example, I'm diligently trying to avoid mentioning spin and vectors, because I don't want to get into the rabbit-hole of the algebra of su(2), the coupling to vector fields, and it's relationship to special relativity. It's important, but its a distraction. – Linas Apr 12 '23 at 19:54

2 Answers2

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That last post you link to has the right answer; it isn't just taking the fourier transform of an arbitrary thing. I must admit, however, that some more explanation of what was happening there would have been good. It also, I think, might have an error in the form of a delta function that shouldn't be there. The same derivation is available in a bit more detail in Peskin+Schroeder "an introduction to quantum field theory" near the end of chapter 4. I don't know who told you you would need to exchange an infinite number of soft photons, or who told you it would take an infinite number of loops. This may be correct in the sense that - if you have two charged conducting spheres orbiting eachother, and you track its momentum changing continuously, for each change in momentum, a virtual photon will need to be exchanged.

This derivation - the potential between two electrons - involves calculating one Feynman diagram. The exchange of one virtual photon. We find that the scattering cross section in the NR limit is consistent with a potential of the form $1/r$.

This is the tree level diagram for calculating the cross section for two electrons with momenta $p$, $k$ to scatter into two electrons with momenta $p'$, $k'$

enter image description here

Reminder that (in QED at least) Feynman diagrams calculate the cross section for a process in powers of $\alpha=1/137$. So just because the scattering is slow doesn't mean you need more diagrams, or more exchanged photons, to calculate it. We get the matrix element: $$ -1\frac{-ie^2}{|p'-p|^2}(2m\delta^{ss'})(2m\delta^{rr'}) $$ The deltas at the end just clarify that the spins had no reason to change. We then want to find what potential is consistent with this cross section for momentum change from $p$ to $p'$. This can be related through the Born approximation, which says that with a potential $V(r)$, the cross section for this scattering is: $$ \langle p'|iT|p\rangle=-i\tilde{V}(q)(2\pi)\delta(E_{p'}-E_p) $$ Where $\tilde{V}(q=p-p')$ is the Fourier transform of $V(r)$. And so by taking the Fourier transform of $\tilde{V}(q)$ we find the potential which is consistent with the scattering cross section we found using tree-level QED.

I rushed through details a bit - to relate the two things, you need to plug in the matrix element from QED into the cross section formula to get the right factors. Trying to be brief and save myself some time here.

AXensen
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  • I don't like this answer, precisely because it once again chooses the evade the actual question, and once again returns to the slight of hand of presenting a fourier transform as if it were the magical answer to soft photons. This is not at all the case. I reformulate something much closer to the expected answer, below. I really really am fishing for the fourier transform of the Jacobi fields of the classical geodesic to be interpreted as a bath of soft photons. This is a question more about the lower energy regime of QFT, and not "what is a feynman diagram". – Linas Apr 10 '23 at 17:37
  • You set up the challenge to derive something, but one had to derive it in a particular way (in a way that could be phrased as infinite soft photons). Have you considered the possibility that this "infinite soft photons" idea might be wrong? Also, I don't see why you keep referring to this Fourier transform as some invalid handwave. It's surrounded by an argument for why the Fourier transform is being done. Meanwhile, your answer has many handwaves about riemanninan geometry and and the interior of an integral that has nothing to do with photons being called a sum over infinite photons. – AXensen Apr 10 '23 at 17:56
  • @Andrew-Christensen (@AXensen) when I first wrote the question, I was doubting that the concept of the "sea of soft photons" was valid. That's why I ask "is it valid?" in the question! By the next morning, after sleeping on it, I recalled/remembered answers I'd seen before (which I try to recreate, perhaps with errors). The exchange of a single photon is not a "sea of photons", and that is why I reject that answer. I specifically ask about the many-body problem; so a single-photon answer won't cut it. I have nothing against Fourier x-forms, they're great! – Linas Apr 12 '23 at 18:14
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Let me answer my own question; after sleeping on it, I was able to recall/remember (fragments of) arguments presented in textbooks and articles. The below is my best attempt to reconstruct those arguments from memory (I do not recall which book or article would have the most detailed argument). The below is as error-free, correct and concise as I can make it. If there are specific mistakes, vague spots or excessive hand-waving, please point these out & I will attempt to make appropriate corrections.

The goal is to show how non-relativistic semi-classical electrodynamics arises as the many-body limit of QED, for N soft photons, for large N>>1. The answer is very long, and splits into three parts. The first part is just a reminder that macroscopic structures, such as coils of wire or capacitors, can be described as sums or integrals over charge distributions or currents. This first part is purely classical and conventional physics. The second part is a short reminder/review that the Fourier transform of the Feynman photon propagator is just the Coulomb potential. That is, the exchange of a single photon can be thought of as a single interaction with a single charge (whether in momentum space or position space). The third part is the most difficult (and the most vaguely presented). It attempts to bridge between the first part (the classical many-body sum-over-charges) and the second part (the photon interactions) to show how the semi-classical (quantized to first order in h-bar) path integrals arise. It also attempts to show how the main contribution to the path integral arises from many soft photons (as opposed to the scattering from a few hard photons). This follows because the semi-classical paths are all close to the (single) classical (geodesic) path of a charge in an electric field.

The answer does not articulate the algebra of vector fields, nor how they transform under (special or general) relativity. That info is widely available, and repeating it here would be a distraction. Adding this articulation would show that the results still hold for electric currents, possibly time-varying, as well as charges.

Consider a uniform electric field, between the plates of a capacitor. The goal is, in the end, to relate this to the interaction term $-ie\,\overline\psi A_\mu\psi$ appearing in a Lagrangian. The capacitor can be approximated with a large collection of electric charges $q_n$ distributed uniformly (spatially) across the plates of the capacitor. These may be taken as fundamental charges $\pm e$. Each such charge has position $\vec x_n$, with a surrounding Coulomb field. Thus, between the plates, we may write an electric field at point $\vec y$ as

$$\vec E(\vec y)=\sum_n \frac{q_n (\vec x_n -\vec y)}{|\vec x_n -\vec y|^3} $$

I write cubed in the denominator, only so as to make the numerator be a unit vector; otherwise, this is just the inverse-square law. A limit of taking the number of electric charges $N\to\infty$ is taken later. Equivalently, the above could have been written as an integral over a charge density $\rho(\vec x)$, instead of a sum over charges.

Now, the interaction Lagrangian has an $A_\mu$ in it, so we want the an expression for the potential, and not the electric field. This is, again, textbook-standard. Writing $A_\mu=(\varphi,\vec A)$ and $\vec E= -\vec\nabla\varphi$, one has

$$\varphi(\vec y)= \sum_n \frac{q_n}{|\vec x_n -\vec y|}$$ (1)

A different expression, but working along the same lines, can be given for the magnetic field around a current flowing along a wire (or a solenoid, as desired).

By convention, quantum field theory is done with momenta (as QFT is geared for scattering); positions are eschewed, and so formalities require the Fourier transform of the above to be taken. The Fourier transform of the Coulomb potential is

$$ \frac{1}{|\vec x - \vec y|} = \frac {1}{(2\pi)^4} \int e^{-i\vec k \cdot (\vec x-\vec y)} 2\pi\delta(E)\frac{1}{k^2 \pm i\epsilon} d^3k\, dE$$ (2)

so that on the right, the conventional Feynman propagator begins to appear before our eyes. I've dropped the $\sum_n$ and the $q_n$, as carrying this about becomes an uninteresting burden. I have inserted a factor of $2\pi\delta(E)$ and then promptly integrated over it, because, once one gets to the QFT point of view, this gets interpreted as a "photon of zero energy".

The shape of the answer to the main question begins to emerge, here: the "bath of photons". This can be interpreted in one of two ways. One way is to recognize the integral as running over an infinite number of photons of momenta distributed in a certain way. These are, however, a coherent collection of photons, because the phase matters: the phase in the integral is what makes it a Fourier transform. When this gets (eventually) drawn as a wavey line in a Feynman line, it is a single line, and so is called "a single photon", albeit integrated over all momenta.

One can get the "thermal bath of photons" by interpreting the sum $\sum_n$ over the charges $q_n$ as providing that: each charge supplies one photon each; these are incoherent in the sum, uncorrelated in terms of phase. It resembles a mixed state, as will becomes more clear below. But it is still a bit early to be re-interpreting these formulas as photons, so lets put these ideas on hold.

QFT is conventionally expressed in terms of scattering states of fixed incoming and outgoing momenta, as S-matrix expressions. Another answer, by Andrew Christensen, to this posting provides the necessary details. Writing the Coulomb potential as $V(r)$ and taking it's Fourier transform as $V(k)$ one can take the scattering matrix elements as

$$ (2\pi)^4\; \langle p\, E|V(k)| p^\prime\, E^\prime\rangle = V(k)\; (2\pi)^3\delta^3(p-p^\prime-k)\; 2\pi \delta(E-E^\prime)$$ (3)

Now, eqn (1) and eqn (2) can be plugged into (3) to get an expression for the multi-photon S-matrix expression for "what is it like to send an electron of momentum $p$ in between the two plates of a charged capacitor?". That is, to obtain

$$ \langle p\, E|\int \varphi(\vec y) d^3y\;| p^\prime\, E^\prime\rangle $$

The actual plugging-and-chugging of this is a bit tedious, so I will skip it. it is more or less straight-forward; one must keep various factors and signs straight, that's all.

Now for the funny part: nothing above has been actually "quantum" in any way. The notation is suggestive, with the bra-ket notation reminiscent of S-matrix notation, and the $1/(k^2\pm i\epsilon)$ recognizable as the Feynman propagator for a photon. But all manipulations are classical, and its still a stretch to imagine "a bath of photons" in the above.

To get to "quantum", one instead starts with the QFT vacuum state $|0\rangle$. A single-photon state can be obtained by applying a raising operator to it: $|1\rangle = a^\dagger|0\rangle$ To maintain contact with scattering, momenta should be attached, and so one writes $$| \vec k\rangle = a^\dagger_{\vec k} |0\rangle$$ as a single photon state. To get to the multi-photon state, one has to insert the raising operator $a^\dagger$ into eqn (1) and (2) to now get operator equations that correspond to an electrostatic field for a charged capacitor. The sum over charges $\sum_n q_n$ becomes a product. Again, this involves more painful plugging-and-chugging.

To make it clear what the final result is, it is easiest to write it as a Feynman diagram, which is, of course, the whole point of these diagrams: to avoid the pain of writing the long integral expressions. The diagram is obviously at tree-level, and it is manifestly multi-photon.

multi-photon tree diagram

The crosses labelled $q_n$ are meant to represent the (stationary, uniformly distributed) charges in the capacitor. The wavey lines are meant to represent the photon propagators, in momentum form, here labelled with momentum $k_n$. These momenta are meant to be integrated over, with each integral giving the Coulomb potential (the cross). Along the bottom runs the electron, with incoming momentum $p$ and outgoing momentum $p^\prime$. At each photon-electron vertex, there is to be a factor of $(2\pi)^4\delta(p^\prime-p^{\prime\prime}-k_n)$ indicating conservation of momentum (and energy) at that vertex. The total diagram is meant to be a product of such vertexes, that is, a product of integrals. Viewed as an operator equation, this becomes a product of raising operators, so that the electric field is represented by many photons, and is written as

$$ |\varphi(\vec y)\rangle = \int\int\cdots\int \frac{e^{ik_1(x_1-y)}}{k_1^2+i\epsilon}dk_1 \cdots \frac{e^{ik_n(x_n-y)}}{k_n^2+i\epsilon} dk_n a^\dagger_{k_1} a^\dagger_{k_2}\cdots a^\dagger_{k_n}|0\rangle$$ (4)

where I'm sure I dropped some factors of $2\pi$ and $-i$ in the product integral above, as well as the assorted delta functions $\delta (p^\prime-p^{\prime\prime}-k_n)$ to balance the momentum, and also the electron propagators! Its a big messy expression! The integrals must be taken over all possible permutations of the charges; that is, there is no set order in which the electron interacts with the various charges.

The most interesting part of the above is not Fourier transforms, and is certainly not the horrible traces over the gamma matrices in the electron propagators, trying to account for the photon polarizations. Important, to be sure, and quite messy algebra. No, the most interesting part is the sequence of delta functions joining together the momenta. These must be arranged in such a way that the incoming electron, with the non-relativistic incoming momentum $p$ must alter its flight-path a little bit, bending, to leave with another (non-relativistic) momentum $p^\prime$. I say "non-relativistic", because one wants to encounter classical electrodynamics, here, with mass $m\gg|p|$. These delta functions (and propagators) must be arranged so that each transfers only a tiny amount of momentum to the electron, and thus they are "soft" or "infrared" photons. Since this is a product of these integrals, each of these contributing charges, a photon each, do so on a "thermal" or "incoherent" fashion. The delta functions prevent any phase from being carried from one integral to the next; the delta functions "erase" any phase dependencies between the individual photons. There is no coherence condition between them (even though, for any one individual charge, the phase is centrally important for giving the correct Fourier transform, for that one individual charge.)

What I have not done, above, but would like to do, is to demonstrate that the integral has a local maximum when all of the photons are soft. This requires writing the integrals in a form where one can use the method of steepest descent, or the multi-dimensional stationary phase method. This is the real place where the "rubber hits the road", where one gets to see the semi-classical ideas take root.

But this is too hard, and requires another three pages of writing. It can be done, as follows: one consider the classical trajectory of an electron in an electric field, and writes this as a geodesic, solving the Hamilton-Jacobi equations. This geodesic is the one that provides the extremum of the action (by definition, as solutions to the Hamilton-Jacobi eqns provide the extrema of the action) This extremum is the thing that is "stationary" in the method of stationary-phase. The goal is then to show that the rest of the multi-integral (4) is "close to" the classical geodesic. That is, the integral (4) is a vast collection of paths, but, of all of these, the only ones that contribute significantly are the ones involving "soft photons". What's more, the "physical" paths that correspond to soft photons should be "close to" the classical geodesic.

This can be done as follows: every geodesic has an accompanying "Jacobi field", which, roughly speaking, describes what directions are locally orthogonal to the geodesic, as well as providing a sense of the distance in those normal directions. The task is then to take the fourier transform of those Jacobi fields, and then to write it in such a way as to notice that a gently curving geodesic only has fourier components with very low momentum. The sum over all nearby-paths to the geodesic then contains only the "soft momenta", and discretizing this should give the "soft photons" of eqn (4) and the tree-level Feynman diagram above.

This is the hard part of answering this question, and sadly, I must leave it blank, for now. It requires too much heavy lifting in Riemannian geometry (to write the Jacobi fields for an electron gently flying through a static electric field) and too much differential geometry (to write the Fourier components, and then equate those to the multi-photon Feynmann integral.) Still, even a simplified exhibition of this would be nice.

Time for one more formula. One has the path integral

$$ Z[J] = \int [d\varphi] \exp \left(\frac{-i}{\hbar} \int d^4x \mathcal{L}(\varphi,\dot\varphi) + \varphi J \right) $$

In this expression, the $J$ is the "current", coupling to the photon field $\varphi$. To get the capacitor problem, one generates the Feynman diagram

$$ \frac{\delta}{\delta J_1} \frac{\delta}{\delta J_2} \cdots \frac{\delta}{\delta J_n} Z[J] $$

for each $J_n$ corresponding to charge $q_n$ located at $x_n$. This is an n-point, n-legged Feynman diagram; it is exactly the diagram shown above.

The Lagrangian is for the charged particle flying between the capacitor plates. The classical path of this particle is the geodesic. The path integral above is to be solved by the method of stationary phase, showing that the only paths making a significant contribution are the ones that are literally, physically nearby, close to the classical path. For them to be nearby, all bends and curvatures must be small (imagine a tube of nearby paths.) Since these are small, the corresponding momentum components are also small. Writing down "all possible nearby paths" is a big mess, but doable, using the Jacobi field. Re-arranging terms, the goal is to show that the resulting expression is exactly nothing other than eqn (4), which is the same thing as the Feynman diagram above. Phew.

In a certain very important sense, this is the answer to this question, and it is the central answer, and yet sadly, I cannot (yet) write it in the detail it deserves. The formulas (1)-(4) above only lay the basic groundwork, only provide the actual introduction to the problem to be solved. The part of the derivation that shows that the soft photons are the only ones contributing to the path integral, that part is still missing.

This answer is long, and also (as noted) incomplete. Earlier answers, and answers to other questions seem to miss entirely the point of the "bath of photons", and seem to miss the point that one must show, at the tree level, that this bath of photons is equivalent to the semi-classical path integral of the action. That is, that there is a tube of paths close to the classical geodesic, the tube is given by the Jacobi fields, and that the paths in this tube all have soft curvatures. That soft curvatures are low-momentum, and are given precisely, exactly (no hand-waving, this time) the soft photons in the integral of eqn (4).

Note/Caution: the classical path of a point charge flying through an electric field is a geodesic, and is understood easily enough. The bundle of nearby paths, contributing to the path integral, should not be thought of as (probabilistic) paths of charges, but rather as paths that contribute to the probability amplitude (and not the probability). The paths must be summed "coherently", in the sense that the relative phases of two paths matter. Worded more formally, they produce not a measure on a (weak) topology, but the square-root of that measure (including a complex phase).

Linas
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  • A "real" photon is an irreversible energy exchange. Where do you see such irreversible energy exchanges in a plate capacitor? For sure not on the bench. The real problem with all these arguments is that "electrostatics" is caused by forces on charge carriers that are not even part of QED. That stable matter exists is the result of the existence of protons, which requires, at least, the inclusion of the strong force. And now you have the really messy task of making stable matter, first, before you can make a macroscopic electrostatic field. – FlatterMann Apr 10 '23 at 17:38
  • Sorry, where did I say "real" in any of the above? I meant to imply virtual. As to watching the energy of a capacitor change, as you move a charged particle between the plates, it sure-as-shootin is visible on an oscilloscope. This is an undergrad lab class experiment. You seem to dislike the argument, but is there some specific formula or sentence that is incorrect? – Linas Apr 10 '23 at 17:45
  • If you are talking about virtual photons, then you are basically just using the wrong formalism. There is no law that requires that perturbation theory has to be able to explain every physical scenario. In this case it doesn't. Like I said... no amount of QED can explain electrostatics. For starters we have to explicitly break Lorentz invariance to make a "static field". There is no such thing as a stationary object in a relativistic world. That's a Newtonian concept and even in Newton it's not a good one because it breaks Galilean relativity. – FlatterMann Apr 10 '23 at 17:50
  • You might find the books written by Jurgen Jost on mathematical physics to perhaps be informative, and to both raise and resolve issues that you are raising. There's also some good books by Bjorken and Drell, and also Itzykson and Zuber. – Linas Apr 10 '23 at 17:58
  • I have a copy of Itzyskson/Zuber. I hope I won't find anything in there that indicates that these formidable theoreticians can't even identify a high school textbook level violation of relativity. Without any offense to mathematical physicists... but sometimes the trees are getting in the way of seeing the forest. I think this is one of these cases. – FlatterMann Apr 10 '23 at 18:00
  • Perhaps you should try reading Itzykson and Zuber. You've moved the conversation into the territory of the absurd, and there's not any particular way to respond to that. Topics like Riemannian geometry and Jacobi fields are also covered in many books, some by Steven Weinberg, who also offers insight. Modern tracts on semi-classical quantization also abound; there was a 200-page article in a prominent math journal, about a decade ago. Search for journal articles on the "Moyal product". Closely related to the PBW theorem. – Linas Apr 10 '23 at 18:08
  • There is nothing absurd about relativity and the fact that a plate capacitor is not a relativistic system. No amount of lingo can change that. – FlatterMann Apr 10 '23 at 18:09
  • The Poincare-Birkoff-Witt theorem is not "lingo", it is one of the several stepping stones to semi-classical quantization. The Moyal product is another. The Moyal product for fermions is called the Berezin determinant in standard textbooks on supersymmetry. The bundle of tools in universal enveloping algebras are precisely those needed to elucidate the non-relativistic limit of QED. I'm trying to get to that, with the post above, in a simpler and less technically dense fashion. However, it is still demanding. An accessible, usable bridge between the math and the physics remains missing. – Linas Apr 10 '23 at 18:25
  • Yes, and none of that bridges the gap to an unphysical system like a plate capacitor. Your answer certainly did not. – FlatterMann Apr 10 '23 at 23:06