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Why is the Hamiltonian not conserved when the Lagrangian has an explicit time dependence? What I mean is that it is very obvious to argue that if the Lagrangian has no an explicit time dependence $L=L(q(t),\dot{q}(t))$ then the Hamiltonian does not depend on time at all since, on-shell, the identity \begin{equation} \frac{d H}{dt} = -\frac{\partial L}{\partial t} \end{equation} must hold. However, in the case of the Lagrangian having explicit time dependence, that is $L=L(q(t),\dot{q}(t),t)$, how can you be entirely sure that the partial derivative does not vanish \begin{equation} \frac{\partial L}{\partial t} \neq 0 \end{equation} and, consequently, that the Hamiltonian is not conserved? In other words, how can you be sure there does not exist a Lagrangian depending explicitly on time such that the partial derivative with respect to time vanishes for all $t$ and then the Hamiltonian is conserved?

Can you say for sure that the Hamiltonian is not conserved if the Lagrangian has explicit time dependence? Or the implication only works for the other way around?

Qmechanic
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Spectree
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1 Answers1

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"how can you be sure there does not exist a Lagrangian depending explicitly on time such that the partial derivative with respect to time vanishes for all "

If the question is that, it does not make much sense. That is because "depending explicitly on time" exactly means that $\partial L/\partial t \neq 0$ somewhere.

So I assume that the question is whether or not the two conditions $$\partial L/\partial t = 0\quad\text{everywhere}$$ and $$\frac{dH}{dt}=0\quad\text{on every solution of the EL equations}$$ are really equivalent. It is known that the former implies the latter, but the converse implication is not so evident.

Above and henceforth, $$H(t,q,\dot{q}) := -L(t,q,\dot{q})+ \sum_{k=1}^n \dot{q}^k \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}^k}.$$

Under natural hypotheses in Mechanics, the two conditions above are actually equivalent though of very different nature as $\partial L/\partial t=0$ does not know anything about the solutions of the EL equations.

If (a) the Lagrangian has standard form $$L= \sum_{h,k} a_{hk}(t,q) \dot{q}^h \dot{q}^k + \sum_{k} b_{k}(t,q) \dot{q}^k+ c(t,q)\:,\tag{1}$$ (b) it is jointly $C^2$, and (c) $$\det\left[\frac{\partial^2 L}{\partial \dot{q}^h \partial \dot{q}^k}\right] = \det [a_{hk}(t,q)]\neq 0\quad\text{everywhere}$$ (this requirement does not depend on the used coordinate patch of type $t,q,\dot{q}$) then the Euler-Lagrange equations satisfy the a local existence and uniqueness theorem of their solutions:

THEOREM 1. With the above conditions (a),(b),(c), given $(t_0,q_0,\dot{q}_0)$ there is a unique solution $$\gamma(t) = (t,q(t),\dot{q}(t)), \quad t \in I \ni t_0$$ of the E.L. equations $$\dot{q}^k(t) = \frac{dq^k}{dt}|_{\gamma(t)}\:, \quad \frac{d}{dt} \left(\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}^k}|_{\gamma(t)}\right)- \frac{\partial L}{\partial q^k}|_{\gamma(t)}=0, \quad k=1,\ldots, n$$ in a sufficiently small neighborhood of $(t_0,q_0,\dot{q}_0)$ with these initial conditions: $(t_0,q(t_0),\dot{q}(t_0))= (t_0,q_0,\dot{q}_0)$.

(Actually this theorem holds globally, but here the local version is sufficient.)

This theorem has the immediate corollary that answers the question:

COROLLARY. With the hypotheses of theorem 1, in every coordinate patch with coordinate $t,q,\dot{q}$, these two facts are equivalent: $$\frac{\partial L}{\partial t}=0 \quad\text{everywhere in the said coordinate patch}\tag{A}$$ $$\frac{dH(\gamma(t))}{dt}=0\quad\text{for every (local) EL solution }\gamma=\gamma(t)\text{ in the said coordinate patch.}\tag{B}$$

PROOF. We know that on every solution $\gamma$ $$\frac{dH(\gamma(t))}{dt} = - \frac{\partial L}{\partial t}|_{\gamma(t)}\tag{2}\:.$$ This immediately yields (A) $\Rightarrow$ (B). Now suppose that (B) holds true. Consider a kinetic state $(t_0,q_0,\dot{q}_0)$ in the considered coordinate patch. There is a solution $\gamma$ satisfying $\gamma(t_0)= (t_0,q_0,\dot{q}_0)$. Due to (B) and (2) we also have $\frac{\partial L}{\partial t}|_{t_0,q_0,\dot{q}_0}=0$. Since $(t_0,q_0,\dot{q}_0)$ is generic, we have that (B) $\Rightarrow$ (A). QED


Reference

jng224
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  • A very complete answer! Then as $dH/dt=0$ (on-shell) implies that $\partial L / \partial t =0$ ( $B \Rightarrow A$, if you wish) you cannot have a case where $\partial L / \partial t \neq 0$ if the Hamiltonian is conserved (does not depend on time). Very useful, Thanks! – Spectree Nov 04 '23 at 11:44
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    Yes, thanks. But please make clearer your question because as it stands it includes some nonsense. I interpreted your issue. – Valter Moretti Nov 04 '23 at 11:49
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    Sure, just point out those "nonsenses" and I will correct them, as you managed to interpret my issue – Spectree Nov 04 '23 at 16:47