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I found the freefall motion equation which describes terminal velocity of a falling body, but I can't find a similar equation for a vehicle subject to constant traction force, so I tried determining it by myself, but resulting equation is not plausible, as it shows dozens of seconds needed for a 1600 kg vehicle to go from 0 to 60 mph, so there must be something wrong. I'm using this equation: $$v(x) = v_f \cdot \tanh\left(\frac F {mv_f} \cdot x \right) = v_f \cdot\tanh\left(\frac {T/w } {m v_f} \cdot x \right)$$

  • $v_f$ = terminal velocity = $\sqrt {\frac F c} = \sqrt {\frac {T} {wc}}$
  • $c = \frac 1 2 \rho C_d A$
  • $\rho$ = air density = 1.225 $\frac {kg} {m^3}$
  • $C_d$ = air drag coefficient = 0.32
  • A = frontal area = 2.19 m$^2$
  • T = given torque = 220 Nm
  • w = wheel radius = 0.25 m
  • m = vehicle mass = 1762.5 kg

Freefall motion equation is:

$$ v(x) = v_f \tanh\left( {x\sqrt{\frac{gc}{m}}}\right)$$

with $v_f=\sqrt{\frac{mg}c}$

With above data for the car, I should get around 10s time for 0-60 mph, but I get 63 seconds!

What am I doing wrong?

With above data(1) for the car, I know (2) I should get around 10s time for 0-60 mph, but I get 63 seconds!

What am I doing wrong?

Other literature data:

  • Fiat Stilo - 255 Nm, 1488 kg, 11.2 s
  • BMW M3 - 400 Nm, 1885 kg, 5.3 s
  • Citroen C3 - 133 Nm, 1126 kg, 14.5 s

Literature data for electric cars:

  • kg W Nm sec-to-60mph
  • Chevrolet Volt 1715 63 130 9,0
  • smart fortwo electric drive 900 55 130 12,9
  • Mitsubishi i-MiEV 1185 47 180 13,5
  • Citroen zEro 1185 49 180 13,5
  • Peugeot iOn 1185 47 180 13,5
  • Toyota Prius Plug-in 1500 60 207 10,7
  • Renault Zoe 1392 65 220 8,0
  • Renault Fluence Z.E. 1543 70 226 9,9
  • Nissan leaf 1595 80 280 11,9
  • Toyota RAV4 EV (US only) 1560 115 296 8,0

(1) "Evaluation of 20000 km driven with a battery electric vehicle" - I.J.M. Besselink, J.A.J. Hereijgers, P.F. van Oorschot, H. Nijmeijer

(2) http://inhabitat.com/2015-volkswagen-e-golf-electric-car-arrives-in-the-u-s-next-fall/2015-vw-e-golf_0003-2/

jumpjack
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  • The units for $Fx/mv$ are m/s and the argument of sine/cosine/tangent functions should be unitless. Perhaps you mean $Fx/mv^2$? – Kyle Kanos Apr 02 '14 at 13:34
  • @Kyle Kanos I think it's correct: $\frac {Fx} {mv} = \frac {([kg] \frac{[m]}{[s^2]}) s} {[kg]\frac{[m]}{[s]}}$ – jumpjack Apr 02 '14 at 14:26
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    Unless $x$ is measured in seconds, it's wrong. – Kyle Kanos Apr 02 '14 at 14:29
  • The freefall equation is complicated because the force changes with distance from the planet. For a car accelerating at constant acceleration just use $v = u + at$. – John Rennie Apr 02 '14 at 14:38
  • Are you trying to calculate how long it takes a car to hit 60 when dropped or when accelerated by the engine on a road? You'll need to know the car's acceleration due to the engine like John Rennie suggests. – user6972 Apr 02 '14 at 17:27
  • @kylekanos , it IS expresswd in seconds, this equation represents v as a function of time. – jumpjack Apr 03 '14 at 08:55
  • Note:i don't want to ignore air drag, actually air drag effect on car acceleration is what I am trying to understand! – jumpjack Apr 03 '14 at 08:56
  • A Tesla does 0-60 in 3.7 sec. (Personal experience!) So wherever this very long discussion goes, it needs to account for that. – garyp Apr 14 '14 at 12:33

4 Answers4

2

You have to split the time domains into the gears needed to reach 60mph. For each gear, there have to be assumptions on the power delivery of the car.

Typically 1st gear is traction limited, so you can assume constant acceleration up to the speed where peak power occurs. The relationship between power speed and acceleration is $P(v) = m \,v\, a(v)$. So run constant acceleration equal to traction of $a_1 = \epsilon \, g$ to speed $v_1 = \frac{P_{max}}{\epsilon g m}$ where $\epsilon$ is traction coefficient (0.4 for FWD, 0.6 for RWD and 0.9 for AWD) representing the peak 'g loading in 1st gear. So in the end of 1st gear the car has parameters

$$ \begin{align} t_1 & = \int_0^{v_1} \frac{1}{a(v)}\,{\rm d} v= \frac{ \frac{P_{max}}{m} }{\epsilon^2 g^2} \\ x_1 & = \int_0^{v_1} \frac{v}{a(v)}\,{\rm d} v=\frac{ \left(\frac{P_{max}}{m}\right)^2 } {2 \epsilon^3 g^3} \\ v_1 & = \frac{ \frac{P_{max}}{m} } {\epsilon g} \\ a_1 & = \epsilon g \end{align} $$

This is the easy part. Now for the sprint to 60mph. Also use the parameter $w = \frac{P_{max}}{m}$ for the power to weight ratio. From this point on, the acceleration is a function of speed and it can be either: $$\begin{aligned} \mbox{no air resistance} & & a(v) & = \frac{w}{v} \\ \mbox{with air resistance} & & a(v) & = \frac{w}{v} - \beta v^2 \\ \end{aligned}$$

The math is simper without air resistance to calculate the parameters for $v_{60} = 60 {\rm mph}$

$$ \begin{align} t_2 & = t_1 + \int_{v_1}^{v_2} \frac{1}{a(v)}\,{\rm d} v= \frac{w}{2 \epsilon^2 g^2} + \frac{v_{60}^2}{2 w} \\ x_2 & = x_1 +\int_{v_1}^{v_2} \frac{v}{a(v)}\,{\rm d} v= \frac{w^2}{6 \epsilon^3 g^3} + \frac{v_{60}^3}{3 w}\\ v_2 & = v_{60} \\ a_2 & = \frac{w}{v_2} \\ \end{align} $$

So the time to 60 can be estimated as

$$\boxed{ t_{60} = \frac{P_{max}}{2 m \epsilon^2 g^2} + \frac{m v_{60}^2}{2 P_{max}} } $$

Example

A $m=1200\,{\rm kg}$ car with peak power $P_{max} = 160\,{\rm hp} = 119,000\,{\rm W}$ goes to $v_{60} = 26.9\,{\rm m/s}$. Traction is $\epsilon=0.4$ and $g=9.81\,{\rm m/s^2}$

$$ t_{60} = \frac{ \frac{119,000}{1200} }{2 \times 0.4^2 \times9.81^2} + \frac{26.9^2}{2 \frac{119,000}{1200}} = 3.23 + 3.63 = 6.86 \, {\rm sec} $$

The actual numbers are going to be slower, since less than peak power is delivered most of the time, and there is air resistance and rolling resistance, plus time to shift gears and road grade effects and ...

Edit 1

For an electric car, given a linear torque curve $T(rpm) = T_{max} \left(1 - \frac{rpm}{rpm_{max}} \right)$ you can create a function of power to weight as function of speed $$w(v) = \frac{P(v)}{m} = \frac{v T(v)}{m} = v( C_0 - C_1 v)$$ given the gearing $rpm(v) = \gamma v$

Now use the acceleration $$ a(v) = \frac{w}{v} - C_2 v^2 = \frac{v (C_0 - C_1 v)}{v} - C_2 v^2 = C_0 - C_1 v - C_2 v^2 $$

With direct integration you have

$$ t_1 = \int_0^{v_1} \frac{1}{a}\,{\rm d}v = \int_0^{v_1} \frac{1}{C_0-C_1 v-C_2 v^2}\,{\rm d}v = \ldots$$

With the parameter of top speed $a(v_f) = 0 \} v_f = \dfrac{\sqrt{C_1^2+4 C_0 C_2}-C_1}{2 C_2} $ and the dimensionless parameter $\zeta = 2-\frac{C_1 v_f}{C_0}$ the time to speed is

$$ \boxed{ t(v) = \frac{v_f}{C_0 \zeta} \ln \left(1+\zeta \frac{v}{v_f-v}\right) }$$

NOTE: There is constraint that says at terminal speed the motor must make positive torque, or the drag limited top speed must be less than the rpm limited top speed.

Edit 2

For constant torque $a = a_0 \left( 1 - \left( \frac{v}{v_f} \right)^2 \right)$ and so

$$ \begin{align} t & = \int\limits _{0}^{v}\frac{1}{a_{0}\left(1-\left(\frac{v}{v_{f}}\right)^{2}\right)}\,{\rm d}v\\ & = \frac{v_f}{a_0} {\rm tanh}^{-1} \left( \frac{v}{v_f} \right) \\ & = \frac{v_f}{2 a_0} \ln \left( \frac{v_f+v}{v_f-v} \right) \end{align}$$

where $a_0$ is the initial acceleration (at zero speed) and $v_f$ the drag limited top speed.

John Alexiou
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  • Why is the constant acceleration of the car related to earth's $g$ and traction? – user6972 Apr 02 '14 at 19:18
  • Tire friction. The limit is the tires in the beginning of the acceleration run. If this wasn't true, then you can create a really short 1st gear and put down max. power early on for rocket like acceleration. Unfortunately 1st gear is spaced out to account for available traction. – John Alexiou Apr 02 '14 at 20:51
  • Thanks for the help, but as I just added in above comments, I don't want to ignore air drag, actually air drag effect on car acceleration is what I am trying to understand (and it makes no sense neglecting airdrag at 60mph!). And I'm studying electric vehicles, so we can consider constant torque. Actually I have yet to figure out if power or torque or both actually affect acceleration and max speed of a car. – jumpjack Apr 03 '14 at 08:59
  • Maybe you should add the phrase electric car in the title to make it clear. – John Alexiou Apr 03 '14 at 12:35
  • An electric motor has usually a linear relationship between torque and rpm, but you have to consider also if the cars has gears or not. – John Alexiou Apr 03 '14 at 12:36
  • Well, I have edited the question, to include a) a linear torque curve and b) air resistance. – John Alexiou Apr 03 '14 at 13:22
  • @ja72 Why do you like so much non-constant values? :-) Electric motor torque is usually constant and not depending even on rpm ("rated torque"). Anyway I'm taking a look at your new equations, thanks. To be more precise: electric torque DOES depend on RPM, but electronic limits it to constant value (rated value). – jumpjack Apr 03 '14 at 14:10
  • And most e-cars have just one gear. – jumpjack Apr 03 '14 at 14:11
  • That is fine. The answer provided is for acceleration with one gear. There is still a gear ratio connecting the wheel speed to the motor speed. – John Alexiou Apr 03 '14 at 14:20
  • If the electronics limit the torque, at some speed the will cease to do so, and the torque curve will start to drop. This may happen above or below 60mph. Just use $t = \int \frac{1}{a},{\rm d} v$, and $x = \int \frac{v}{a},{\rm d} v $ to get the solution you want for whatever acceleration function $a(v)$ you define. – John Alexiou Apr 03 '14 at 14:35
  • I edited your new equation by expanding it to figure out how to take into account a constant torque, but doing so I noticed there's probably an error, so final "collapsed" equation would be C0v-C1v rather than C0-C1*v . – jumpjack Apr 03 '14 at 14:39
  • damn, I "lost" a v in the tex syntax... Eventually we have C0v-C1v2 – jumpjack Apr 03 '14 at 14:43
  • For constant torque, $C_1 = 0$. See Edit 2 for more details. – John Alexiou Apr 03 '14 at 14:57
  • Look into http://www.yaskawa.com/site/dmdrive.nsf/link2/MNEN-5JFQNV/$file/AR.MOTOR.01.pdf for a horsepower vs. speed curve, which includes a constant power section after the constant torque section. – John Alexiou Apr 03 '14 at 15:06
  • Why did you cancel my edit? Your edit1 is wrong, w(v) is NOT equal to $C_0-C_1v$, it's$C_0v-C_1v^2$, indeed you wrote it right in a(v) expression: $w(v)=v(C_0-C_1v)$ . Calculation steps were also very useful to reader, why did you delete them?? – jumpjack Apr 04 '14 at 08:35
  • @jumpjack ... added a calculation step to edit 2 and fixed edit 1. You are correct, there was a typo. – John Alexiou Apr 05 '14 at 15:09
  • @ja72 Sorry I'm being dense. I still don't understand where your equation: "run constant acceleration equal to traction of $a_1=ϵg$" comes from and why Earth's acceleration is involved. – user6972 Apr 09 '14 at 05:16
  • @user6972 The maximum achievable acceleration depends on static friction of wheels wrt road: F = ma ==> $a = F/m, F =\mu g$ , where $\mu$ = static friction coefficient, which is 0.8-0.9 for tyres on dry asfalt (but it depends on how many and which wheels are driving wheels): http://www.dafne.unitus.it/web/scaricatore.asp?c=z05724yvpcvy7c04p03nfpork&par=1 http://bsesrv214.bse.vt.edu/Hop/Papers/Tire-Road%20Friction%20Coefficient.pdf – jumpjack Apr 09 '14 at 07:30
  • @jumpjack Thanks, I understand now. So the above example is for 1 tire carrying all the weight? – user6972 Apr 09 '14 at 07:58
  • @user6972 Actually, looking again at his formulas, it looks like he considers g as the tractive acceleration rather than something posing an higher limit for achievable acceleration, so actually I don't understand too... – jumpjack Apr 09 '14 at 12:02
  • @user6972 Additionally, this equation is totally wrong: – jumpjack Apr 09 '14 at 12:08
  • $t_1 = \int_0^{v_1} \frac{1}{a(v)},{\rm d} v = \frac{ \frac{P_{max}}{m} } {\epsilon^2 g^2}$ – jumpjack Apr 09 '14 at 12:08
  • @user6972 because, being P(v) = mva(v) , then $a(v)=\frac P{mv}$ , so we eventually actually have $t=\frac 1 2 \frac {mv^2}P$ , as it MUST be, because E = P*t and $E = \frac 1 2 m v^2$ – jumpjack Apr 09 '14 at 12:11
  • But also, if a(v)=$\epsilon g$ we have $t_1 = \int_0^{v_1} \frac{1}{\epsilon g},{\rm d} v = \frac{1}{\epsilon g} \int_0^{v_1} 1,{\rm d} v = \frac v {\epsilon g} = \frac 1 {\epsilon g} \frac P{ma} = \frac 1 {\epsilon g} \frac P{m \epsilon g} = \frac{ \frac{P_{max}}{m} } {\epsilon^2 g^2}$, so eventually I'm totally confused. – jumpjack Apr 09 '14 at 12:27
  • $a = \frac{dv}{dt} } dt = \frac{1}{a} dv } t = \int dt$ It is not wrong, it is called direction integration. Look it up. – John Alexiou Apr 09 '14 at 14:18
  • $E = P t$ is wrong since $P$ is not constant. It is $E = \int P dt$ stated correctly. – John Alexiou Apr 09 '14 at 14:20
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I am adding another answer in order to show the steps needed to solve such problems in the general sense.

An acceleration run is split into parts of differing acceleration domains. Given a starting condition for time, distance, speed, acceleration of $t_0, x_0, v_0, a_0$ here is what you can do

  1. Constant Torque with Air Drag $t=t_0 \rightarrow t_1$, $v=v_0 \rightarrow v_1$, $$a(v)= a_0 - \beta v^2 = a_0 \left(1-\frac{v^2}{v_f^2} \right) \\ v_f =\sqrt{\frac{a_0}{\beta}}$$ $$ \begin{align} t_1 & = t_0 + \int_{v_0}^{v_1} \frac{1}{a_0 \left(1-\frac{v^2}{v_f^2} \right)}\,{\rm d} v = \\ & = t_0 + \frac{v_f}{a_0} {\rm tanh}^{-1} \left( \frac{v_f (v_0-v_1)}{v_0 v_1-v_f^2} \right) \end{align} $$
  2. Constant Power with Air Drag $t=t_0 \rightarrow t_1$, $v=v_0 \rightarrow v_1$, $$a(v) = \frac{w_0}{v}-\beta v^2 = \frac{w_0}{v_f} \left( \frac{v_f}{v} - \frac{v^2}{v_f^2} \right) \\ v_f = \sqrt[3]{\frac{w_0}{\beta}} $$ $$ \begin{align} t_1 & = t_0 + \int_{v_0}^{v_1} \frac{1}{\frac{w_0}{v_f} \left( \frac{v_f}{v} - \frac{v^2}{v_f^2} \right)}\,{\rm d} v = \\ &= t_0 + \dfrac{v_f^2}{w_0} \Bigg( \frac{1}{3} \ln \left(\frac{v_f-v_0}{v_f-v_1}\right) + \frac{1}{6} \ln \left( \frac{v_1^2+v_1 v_f + v_f^2}{v_0^2+v_0 v_f + v_f^2} \right) + \ldots \\ & + \frac{1}{\sqrt{3}} \arctan \left( \frac{1}{\sqrt{3}} \left(1+\frac{2 v_0}{v_f} \right) \right) - \frac{1}{\sqrt{3}} \arctan \left( \frac{1}{\sqrt{3}} \left(1+\frac{2 v_1}{v_f} \right) \right) \Bigg) \end{align} $$
  3. Linear Torque with Air Drag $t=t_0 \rightarrow t_1$, $v=v_0 \rightarrow v_1$, $$ a(v) = a_0 - c_1 v - c_2 v^2 = (a_0 - c_1 v) - \left(\frac{a_0}{v_f^2} - \frac{c_1}{v_f} \right) v^2 \\ v_f = \sqrt{\frac{a_0}{c_2} + \frac{c_1^2}{4 c_2^2}} - \frac{c_1}{2 c_2} $$ $$ \begin{align} t_1 & = t_0 + \int_{v_0}^{v_1} \frac{1}{(a_0 - c_1 v) - \left(\frac{a_0}{v_f^2} - \frac{c_1}{v_f} \right) v^2}\,{\rm d} v =\\ & = t_0 + \frac{v_f}{c_1 v_f -2 a_0} \ln \left( \frac{(v_f-v_1) (a_0 (v_0+v_f)-c_1 v_0 v_f)}{(v_f-v_0) (a_0 (v_1+v_f)-c_1 v_1 v_f)} \right) \end{align} $$

Good luck!

NOTE: I used a CAS system to do the math for me.

Appendix

Example calculation with Renault Zoe:

Tq

I used $m=1392\,{\rm kg}$ and constant torque up to $v_1 = 10\,{\rm m/s}$, and constant power of $P=63000\,{\rm W}$ afterwards. Final speed is $v_2 = 26.88\,{\rm m/s}$. I had to pick arbitrary top speed of $v_f = 47.0\, {\rm m/s}$

From $w_0 = \frac{P}{m} = 45.26 {\rm W/kg}$, The power at $v_1$ is used to find the inital constant acceleration $a_1 = \frac{P}{m v_1} = 4.52\,{\rm m/s^2}$ ( γ=0.46 traction )

The time to $v_1$ is

$$ t_1 = \int_0^{v_1} \frac{1}{a_1 \left(1-\left(\frac{v}{v_f}\right)^2\right)}\,{\rm d}v = 2.244\,{\rm sec} $$

From this point on the acceleration is

$$ a(v) = \frac{w_0}{v_f} \left( \frac{v_f}{v} - \frac{v^2}{v_f^2} \right) = \frac{45.26}{v} - \frac{v^2}{2294.0} $$

and the time to 60mph is

$$ t_2 = t_1 + \int_{v_1}^{v_2} \frac{1}{a(v)}\,{\rm d}v = 2.244 + 7.553 \approx 9.79 {\rm sec} $$

NOTE: $\int \frac{x}{1-x^3}\,{\rm d}x = -\frac{1}{3} \ln(1-x)+ \frac{1}{6} \ln(x^2+x+1) - \frac{1}{\sqrt{3}} \arctan \left( \frac{2 x+1}{\sqrt{3}} \right)$

John Alexiou
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  • $a_0=C_0=\frac {F_{max}}m$ – jumpjack Apr 07 '14 at 12:00
  • $\beta = C_2 = \frac 1 2 \rho C_d A \frac 1 m$ – jumpjack Apr 07 '14 at 12:03
  • From second answer, $t_{0-60}=\frac{v_f}{C_0} atanh\left(\frac {27.8}{v_f}\right)$ , but it still gives impossible results of 60 and more seconds to me. – jumpjack Apr 07 '14 at 12:16
  • So your assumptions for the the torque curve are not correct then. – John Alexiou Apr 07 '14 at 14:39
  • Only up to 40 km/h... But this should result in SHORTER times than real, but we get LONGER times instead. Are we maybe misinterpreting input values? Given 150 Nm torque from manufacturer... should we convert it to something else?!? – jumpjack Apr 07 '14 at 14:46
  • Sorry, I confused this thread with another... I was referring to this actual chart for torque/speed curve: http://www.renault.com/fr/innovation/gamme-mecanique/images_without_moderation/courbe-zoe.jpg – jumpjack Apr 07 '14 at 18:28
  • So off the line there is constant torque (Case 1) up to 36 km/h and then constant power (Case 2) beyond that. – John Alexiou Apr 07 '14 at 18:36
  • @jumpjack great toruqe curve. Do you have any idea what the top speed is for a Pegeot Zoe? – John Alexiou Apr 07 '14 at 18:49
  • Zoe is by Renault. It has 135 km/h max speed, but EVs usually have top speed electronically limited below actually possible max speed to save battery, so it can't be used as a check-parameter for our calculations. – jumpjack Apr 07 '14 at 20:04
  • So any idea about why all formulas I found till now always give result six times greater than actual 0-60 time? Is there something wrong in how we pass from given torque to force applied to wheels maybe? – jumpjack Apr 08 '14 at 21:01
  • Must be a unit error somewhere. Make sure you have combined density, area and speed correctly for drag, and that you use the correct torque values (at engine vs. at wheel) depending on what you want. When I run the Renault it gave me 0-60 of 9.5sec instead of 8.0 you mentioned. That is pretty close for me. – John Alexiou Apr 08 '14 at 21:20
  • I divide torque by 0.25 meters which is supposed to be approximately the wheel radius, is that correct? Which numbers and formula did you exactly use for renault? Maybe I can use them to track down my error! – jumpjack Apr 08 '14 at 21:43
  • Ok see the appendix in my answer. – John Alexiou Apr 09 '14 at 00:31
  • (edited)Thanks, I'll check my math. But about Vf, why do you need manufacturer data? It should just be = sqrt(Tmax/(rc)) – jumpjack Apr 09 '14 at 09:31
  • I calculated that for Zoe we have P ~= 6600 * v [W] and T = 220 [Nm], but if I apply these data to P = Fv formula and T = F r formula, it results that wheel radius is 3 cm (0,030 m)!! How is that possible? It is a 10 factor which could explain my weird results of time >60secs rather than time>6 secs . – jumpjack Apr 09 '14 at 10:07
  • $ a(v) = \frac{w_0}{v_f} \left( \frac{v_f}{v} - \frac{v^2}{v_f^2} \right) = \left( \frac{w_0}{v} - \frac{w_0v^2}{v_f^3} \right) = \left( \frac{H}{v} - Kv^2 \right) = \left( \frac{H - Kv^3}{v} \right)$

    NOTE: Being $ a(v) = \left( \frac{H - Kv^3}{v} \right)$ , we have $\frac 1 {a(v)} = \frac v {H - Kv^3}$, and we have:

    $ \int \frac{x}{1-x^3},{\rm d}x = -\frac{1}{3} \ln(1-x)+ \frac{1}{6} \ln(x^2+x+1) - \frac{1}{\sqrt{3}} \arctan \left( \frac{2 x+1}{\sqrt{3}} \right)$

    – jumpjack Apr 09 '14 at 10:40
  • You are using torque and engine, and wheel radius. You need to transfer the torque to the wheels. You need gearing information (I do not suppose it is a direct drive). Use $T=\frac{P}{v} r$ to get torque at wheel and $gear = \frac{T}{T_{engine}}$. – John Alexiou Apr 09 '14 at 14:14
  • Found this page: http://www.baranidesign.com/acceleration/acceleration.html – jumpjack Apr 09 '14 at 14:21
  • See now? I have been telling you for days, that this is the correct way of doing it. In your case you may need simulate small speed increments and calculate time and distance from there. Kind of like an numerical ODE solver. – John Alexiou Apr 09 '14 at 14:25
  • Isn't manufacturer-given torque supposed to be to-wheel torque? – jumpjack Apr 09 '14 at 14:26
  • you keep giving results without steps/demonstrations/explanations, I'm spending these days reconstructing what you didn't write! – jumpjack Apr 09 '14 at 14:28
  • I gave you the tools to do the work yourself. This is how this site works. As far as torque goes, no manufacturers give torque at engine/flywheel always. – John Alexiou Apr 09 '14 at 14:37
  • This is NOT how the site works, this is a wiki-like site, where users write complete answers for future readers, not just hints. Hints must be placed into comments. – jumpjack Apr 10 '14 at 10:33
  • @jumpjack read the FAQ on [tag:homework] type questions. No complete answers are not allowed. – John Alexiou Apr 10 '14 at 11:15
  • I was eventually able to find some values for overall gear ratio in electric vehicles: it's around 8.0 , which is ~10, which is the "dark factor" which was messing up all my formulas.... – jumpjack Apr 11 '14 at 13:58
  • I also found a method to calculate it: $G = \frac {P_m r}{T_m v_c} $ , where Pm and Tm are max Power and Torque, r is wheel radius and v_c the speed at which torque stops being constant. – jumpjack Apr 11 '14 at 13:59
  • Torque at wheel is $T_w= T_e G $, being $T_e$ = engine torque. Force applied to wheeks is then $F_t = \frac {T_e G} r$ – jumpjack Apr 11 '14 at 14:03
  • Finally, I found expressions for T(v) and P(v) in intervals before and after $v_c$:

    $T=T_m$ ($0<v<v_c$) ,

    $T(v) = \frac {P_m r} G \frac 1 v $ ($v>v_c$) ,

    $P(v)=\frac {P_m} {v_c} v$ ($0<v<v_c$),

    $P = P_m $ ($v>v_c$)

    – jumpjack Apr 11 '14 at 14:05
  • Is it possible also to obtain v(x) expression knowing that a(v) = A/v -Bv^2 ? I'm told that 1/v has no definite integral... – jumpjack Apr 11 '14 at 14:08
  • You can get $x(v)=\int \frac{v}{a},{\rm d}v$, but you wont be able to invert it I think. Try it. – John Alexiou Apr 11 '14 at 14:45
  • Ops, mistyped, writing comment again: if I consider $v=\sqrt{\frac F c}tanh(t\frac{\sqrt{cF}}m)$ I can visually see that $t_{62}=6.3 secs$ , but if I use inverse formula $t=\sqrt{\frac{m^2}{Fc}}atanh(v\sqrt{\frac c F})$ I get 13.4 secs, almost double the time, why? – jumpjack Apr 14 '14 at 08:59
  • @jumpjack you are doing something wrong then. It is time to create a new question with the above, and show your work. – John Alexiou Apr 14 '14 at 12:04
  • Being it just a math issue, I posted it here: http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/753214/problem-inverting-a-function# Input data: F=6200 N , c = 0.40 and m = 1400 kg – jumpjack Apr 15 '14 at 07:58
  • Related answer http://physics.stackexchange.com/a/15620/392 – John Alexiou Apr 16 '14 at 17:57
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    Found the solution to "bad numbers" question in comment above: formulas are right, but I was plotting v and t using WinPlot... which has no atanh() definition, so it actually plotted a*tanh() !! – jumpjack Apr 17 '14 at 07:32
  • Now that is funny! – John Alexiou Apr 17 '14 at 18:28
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What I was doing wrong was putting manufacturer-provided motor torque directly into the formulas; actually the overall gear ratio must be taken into account, and it results from data taken around on internet that for electric vehicles it is =~8 (dimensionless).

Hence the proper expression to use for $v_f tanh(\frac{F}{mv_f} t)$ is not $v_f tanh(\frac{\frac {T_M} r}{mv_f} t)$ but:

$$v(t) = v_f tanh(\frac{\frac {T_W} r}{mv_f} t)$$

with

$T_W = T_M G$

$T_M$ = motor torque [Nm] (manufacturer given)

G = Overall gear ratio [dimensionless] = $\frac{P_m r}{T_m v_c}$

r = wheel radius [meters]

m = vehicle mass [kg]

$v_f$= terminal velocity = $\sqrt \frac F c$ [m/s]

$F = \frac {T_M G}r$

$c= {\frac 1 2 \rho C_d A}$

$\rho = 1.225 $[kg/m^3]

$C_d$ = air drag coefficient [dimensionless] (=~0.3 for cars)

A= cross section area , frontal area [m^2] (~= 2.2 for cars)

Anyway the resulting expression for v(t) is only valid for constant torque, but torque is not constant even for electric vehicles: it's constant only up to 30-40 km/h, then it decreases as $\frac 1 v$ , and expressions for v also taking into account this torque behaviour is yet to be determined.

jumpjack
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Final answer found here:

http://digitalcommons.mtu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1697&context=etds

"DEVELOPMENT OF THE ECOCAR 3 PROPOSAL AND GUIDELINES FOR MODELING AND DESIGN IN YEAR ONE OF ECOCAR 3 - Tyler B. Daavettila - Michigan Technological University"


$P = \frac{m_e}{2\epsilon_t \underline {t_a}} \left( v_f^2+v_b^2 \right)+\frac 2 3 m g C_{rr}v_f+ \frac 1 5 \rho C_D A_f {v_f}^2$

From this we get:

$t_a = \frac {m_e(v_f^2+v_b^2)}{2 \epsilon_t \left(P-\frac 2 3 mgC_{rr}v_f - \frac 1 5 \rho C_dA_fv_f^3 \right)}$

$m_e$ = equivalent mass (including rotational energy)

$v_b$ = max speed at constant torque

$v_f$ = final speed

$\epsilon_t$ = total powertrain efficiency

$t_a$ = time from 0 to $v_f$ speed

g = 9,81 m/s^2

$C_{rr}$ = rolling friction

$C_D$ = air friction coefficient

$A_f$ = frontal area

$P$ = Motor power

jumpjack
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  • Equation 11 is basically what I proposed. To split the acceleration in two domains and do the integrals. Figure 6.5B clearly shows the constant torque and constant power domains. – John Alexiou Sep 11 '14 at 14:33