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What is the simplest explanation on why is E6 gauge group more favored as a group for Grand unified theory builders, while E8 is not? What about other exceptional groups? Which of them originate from the string theory in the most natural way, and why?

David Z
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Newman
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1 Answers1

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Saying that $E_6$ is "favored" over $E_8$ in GUT model building is a big understatement.

There can't be any grand unified theory with an $E_8$ gauge group because $E_8$ has no complex representations, i.e. representations that are inequivalent from their complex conjugates. The existence of complex representations is a necessary condition for the theory to contain chiral fermions, i.e. Dirac fermions whose left-handed components carry different quantum numbers (and interactions) than the right-handed components. One may also say that complex representations are needed for the violation of C, P, and CP.

$E_6$ is the only one among five exceptional groups that has any complex representations. It's related to the fundamental ${\bf 27}$ or antifundamental $\overline{{\bf 27}}$ representation of the group which are interchanged by an outer automorphism of $E_6$, a symmetry that boils down to the ${\mathbb Z}_2$ symmetry of its Dynkin diagram. $E_6$ is the only exceptional Lie group with a nontrivial symmetry of the Dynkin diagram.

All other exceptional Lie groups, namely $G_2, F_4, E_7, E_8$, only have real representations, a fact that can be seen by looking at their real fundamental representations, too. The spectrum of gauge theories using these groups would be inevitably left-right symmetric, and therefore experimentally excluded. Patterns about particles such as "neutrinos have to be left-handed" would be impossible.

Despite the comments above, $E_6$ is a subgroup of $E_8$. So in string theory, it is possible to break $E_8$ (a key group e.g. in heterotic string theory) to $E_6$ by stringy effects, e.g. by nontrivial configurations of the $E_8$ gauge field as a function of the extra (compact) dimensions in $E_8\times E_8$ heterotic string theory. Spontaneous breaking of $E_8$ by field-theoretical methods (Higgs mechanism) is no good because it would only produce real representations of $E_6$ again. In string theory, $E_6$, a viable GUT group, may emerge as a subgroup of $E_8$ (or $E_7$). $G_2$ and $F_4$ are too small to be relevant for GUT model building.

All papers that claim to build viable models of particle physics from an $E_8$ field theory are pseudoscientific gibberish, denying elementary features of the groups in which the known quantum fields transform. In the case of Garrett Lisi's paper, the absence of complex representations is the main point of the paper by Garibaldi and Distler.

Luboš Motl
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    Lubos, thanks for clear answer. There are some models in which parity is restored at some high energy scale (left-right symmetry , so if this is really the case, would it mean that we no longer need groups having complex representations, or is it the case that even in left-right models fermions live in complex representations? – Newman Jan 04 '12 at 18:49
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    Dear @Newman - sorry for this 4-year delay. ;-) I just got a link to this page yesterday again. The left-right-symmetric models restore the left-right symmetry at higher energies so there are also couplings to right-handed leptons etc. But this left-right symmetry not only reverts the space but also exchanges two factors in the gauge group, like SU(2) left and SU(2) right. There must still exist a correlation between the fundamental/antifundamental type of a representation of a gauge group; and the handedness under the Lorentz group. And the gauge groups without cplx reps juust can't do it! – Luboš Motl Nov 29 '15 at 06:44
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    So even in models with the left-right symmetry, when they're embedded into a simple group, the group must be like SO(10) or E6 etc., something that has complex reps inequivalent to their complex conjugates. A subgroup of SO(10) may have things like SU(2) x SU(2) which only have pseudoreal and real reps. But the exchange of the two SU(2)'s replaces the complex conjugation (and is combined with the left-right flip of space). The exchange is only possible if there are at least 2 factors - if the gauge group isn't simple (grand unified). If there's nothing to exchange, you need cplx reps. – Luboš Motl Nov 29 '15 at 06:46
  • Note that E8 GUT has a long history before Garrett Lisi. It appears that Lubos is claiming that Itzhak Bars and Murat Gunaydin produced pseudoscientific gibberish in 1980. https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.45.859. Note that E8 x E8 heterotic string theory from 1984 took the breakings studied by Bars and Gunaydin in 1980. – David Chester Oct 28 '22 at 21:36
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    Of course I am. E8 cannot be the gauge group in grand unified theories and a sensible person has understood the reasons from my simple proof above - which I knew at the high school. Physics doesn't work by references to authority and even if it did, I am a greater one than your authorities. – Luboš Motl Oct 30 '22 at 03:02
  • Atsuyama proved the Rosenfeld generalized projective planes are legit, as cited by Atiyah. The 128 spinor in e8(-24) can be represented with the split-octo-octonionic projective plane, Os (x) O^2$. Recently, Wilson, Dray, and Manogue have described how to implement e8 Lie algebra transformations with octonions. The octonions have complex numbers inside, but this was overlooked by Distler and Garibaldi, as they focused on endomorphisms, which by construction are associative.

    One can fix a U(1) inside of E8 and construct a 5-grading with complex reps. See a Bars and Gunaydin 1979 paper.

    – David Chester Sep 27 '23 at 00:17
  • Another way to see it is that you can get complex structure from real Clifford algebras in higher dimensions. However, it's best to use E8 for a spectrum, not a gauge group. I agree that using a 3875 Higgs is unnecessary. One should instead gauge a subgroup of E8. – David Chester Sep 27 '23 at 00:17
  • The associativity is needed for the unitarity of the gauge boson interactions. On top of that, E8 is a group which is associative and if something is not, it cannot be the E8 group. You are not constructing any gauge theory at all or it is inconsistent and you are just emitting euphemisms and meaningless pseudo physical gibberish. – Luboš Motl Sep 28 '23 at 01:06