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Photons are the packets of energy released by continuous oscillation of charges.

But I have some questions about this.

Since the electrons oscillate regularly while transitioning between orbitals then why is the energy released in the form of packets and not continuously in the form of waves ? What causes this discontinuity in released energy by electrons ?

A physical reasoning will be more appreciated than a mathematical one.

Note : By the word continuous , I am referring to the fact that two consecutive photons have time gap between their emissions while waves are just continuously produced with no gaps at all.

Ankit
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  • I do not believe you can calculate the time between photons being emitted from a source - durations may vary probabilistically (as predicted by quantum mechanics). – electronpusher Aug 17 '20 at 19:57
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    "why-questions" can be really tricky in physics. Why is gravity attractive? Because that's the way it works. Why is energy quantized (so it comes in packets)? Because that's the way it works. I think you need to rephrase your why: are you looking for a mathematical description, a direct evidence, a theoretical answer based on more basic theoretical concepts, or something else? – Mauro Giliberti Oct 19 '20 at 08:40

4 Answers4

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Photons are quantum mechanical elementary particles in the very successful quantum field theory standard model. If you look at the table, they are on par with electrons, and individual photons are point particles, not waves in any space. What waves is the mathematical complex value wavefunction $Ψ$, whose only measurable prediction is the probability of finding a photon in (x,y,z,t) in space, equal to the real number $Ψ^*Ψ$ .

What you had drawn (in a previous version) was a description of a free photon as a wavepacket , in quantum field theory , and it is a probability wave packet, not a space and time wave wavepacket.

Since they oscillate regularly or continuously then why is the energy released in the form of packets ?

The premise is wrong. Individual photons do not oscillate, see this experiment with single photons at a time. It is the probability of measuring it that oscillates.

What causes this discontinuity in released energy ??

the fact that is a single particle that is carrying it.

Can we calculate the time gap between each of these photons ( which should exist when we say them as packets ), even if it is too small ??

Everything in quantum mechanics that can be calculated is probabilistic. There will be a calculable probability , depending on the source, whether an atom, or a decelerating electron or other charged particle.

As the energy of a photon is $hν$ where $ν$ is the frequency of the classical wave many thousands of photons build up (see link of single photons above) and h is a very small number, ordinary electromagnetic waves, light, emerge from zillions of photons in a way calculable with quantum electrodynamics.

Since the electrons oscillate regularly then why is the energy released in the form of packets and not continuously in the form of waves ? What causes this discontinuity in released energy by electrons ?

Free electrons, of fixed momentum, do not oscillate. Thep probability of finding them at (x,y,z,t), connected with the wavefunction, has sinusoidal behavior.

Electrons decelerated in some field, do radiate photons, i.e. elementary particles , which by their existence take energy away.

Electrons bound in the atoms do not oscillate regularly. They are quantum mechanically bound in orbitals at specific energy levels with specific quantum numbers. See the simple orbitals for electrons in a hydrogen .

Actually the discontinuity, the spectra of the atoms, is one of the basic reasons quantum mechanics was invented. See this answer of mine.

anna v
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    I didn't mean to say that individual photons oscillate . I have edited it now . I meant to say the oscillating electrons. – Ankit Aug 18 '20 at 04:02
  • please check out for the edits because I think it was not clear earlier and you could have understood it wrong. – Ankit Aug 18 '20 at 04:39
  • the pictures do not represent photons but the probability space of measuring a photon. the way you have them it is as if it is waving in space, see link 4 to see what one photon does in space – anna v Aug 18 '20 at 05:43
  • I didn't know much about the photons and the image of photons as a wave packet in the question was added by mistake because I didn't get any other picture of it. – Ankit Aug 18 '20 at 10:36
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    @Ankit Don't worry. Your question is not bad at all. It is not easy to understand how can be the same thing in some cases modeled as a wave in other cases as a particle, and what is that waves, but this answer is a good start. – Arpad Horvath Aug 18 '20 at 16:27
  • @Ankit see my similar answer here https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/439919/how-do-photons-travel-and-what-does-the-frequency-of-a-photon-mean/439923#439923 – anna v Aug 19 '20 at 04:13
  • @anna v thanks for the link but one thing is still not clear . If the electrons oscillate continuously then they must release energy continuously then why should we expect the energy to come as packets or particles ?? – Ankit Aug 19 '20 at 08:35
  • @Ankit in the quantum dimensions it is probabilities that oscilate, the probability for the phooton or electron or... to be at (x,y,z,t) has a wave behavior. see why they invented the packets of ernegy https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/573524/single-planck-h-constants/573602#573602 – anna v Aug 19 '20 at 12:29
  • Really nice answer. – Árpád Szendrei Aug 22 '20 at 16:55
  • A wave function is a mathematical construct which may or may not accurately model what is happening in the real world. There can be no denying that photons are associated with real electromagnetic waves. – R.W. Bird Oct 18 '20 at 14:18
  • @R.W.Bird please see this post on how in QFT the superposition of photons builds up the classical em wave https://motls.blogspot.com/2011/11/how-classical-fields-particles-emerge.html – anna v Oct 18 '20 at 14:29
  • @anna v I have tried to make the question clear and focused to a single point : Why energy comes in the form of packets ? Please edit your answer to point this specific question. – Ankit Oct 19 '20 at 07:48
  • @anna v see this answer on my question https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/577993/271783. – Ankit Oct 19 '20 at 10:03
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    It is a mathematical exrapolation to classical electromagnetism. It is not the mainstream view of quantum mechanics. Also the dipole oscillation is not continuous, only during the transition. The electron is not contunually oscillating even in this derivation. – anna v Oct 19 '20 at 10:08
  • @anna v okay . So the oscillation is only during transitioning then this is the point where my question begins. Can you explain the question considering that transitioning period because my question is just focused to oscillation and it doesn't matter when it occurs. It occurs and so I asked the question. – Ankit Oct 19 '20 at 18:08
  • You have not grasped that where Ψ appears, it means the wavefunction and a probability distribution. A single electron in an orbital in an atom sitting in an excited level does not oscillate. the probability of measuring it at (x,y,z) at time t oscillates when it transitions. It means you have to measure many electrons in order to see the oscillation. Similar to the single photon experiment linked in my aswer. – anna v Oct 19 '20 at 18:28
  • @anna v I was not referring to oscillating electrons in orbitals rather I was referring to the oscillation while transitioning (the one I linked in the comment). – Ankit Oct 20 '20 at 03:48
  • The answer in the link is about electrons in orbitals. – anna v Oct 20 '20 at 04:41
  • @anna v one last thing : do we know why decelerated electrons in some fields radiate photons and not em waves ? – Ankit Oct 25 '20 at 04:26
  • @Ankit electromagnetic waves are composed out of a zillion of photons. See this answer of mine to get an intuition of how photons build up electromagneitic waves https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/90646/what-is-the-relation-between-electromagnetic-wave-and-photon/90649#90649 – anna v Oct 25 '20 at 04:33
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The straight answer is that nobody knows why. We only know how.

By how I mean that we have accurate methods to predict experimental numbers. We can solve wave equations with advanced methods, as in quantum chemistry, and add on QED radiative corrections, for example.

So we know how but not why wave equations account, and very accurately so, for the behaviour of discrete particles.

I think it is important that we lay our cards on the table and that students are not trained to think that we understand QM fully.

my2cts
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  • I don't think we even know how. We have math that models experiments. What, if any, meaning can be attached to the math has had us scratching our heads for centuries. – garyp Oct 22 '20 at 13:28
  • @garyp QM and QED very accurately models and predicts what happens. That is knowing how. – my2cts Oct 23 '20 at 08:38
  • To the anonymous that downvoted, you seem to know why we have QM? Please share this. – my2cts Oct 24 '20 at 23:06
  • @my2cts I was the downvoter and my reasoning was your answer disregards the work of our ancestor when we have working models which clearly explains the packet nature of photon, schrodinger equation for hydrogen atom, QED for $e^-\rightarrow e^- \gamma$. I understand your answer is correct but I found it too pessimistic and it can be problematic for beginners, like OP, who doesn't know QM or QED. – aitfel Oct 27 '20 at 11:45
  • @aitfel Thank you for explaining. I extended my indeed terse answer with an explanation. – my2cts Oct 27 '20 at 13:29
  • @aitfel One comment, you mention "the packet nature of photon". To this I state that in QM particles are nor (wave) packets, but discrete objects that are statistically described by waves. – my2cts Oct 27 '20 at 13:32
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Short answer: Emission of photons doesn't mean their frequency will be discontinuous rather their energy will be discretized, given by $E=\hbar \omega$ Planck relation. Photons by definition is an object having energy given by its frequency, hence they're bound to be discrete.

Long one: Fundamentally photons (massless spin-$1$ particle) are given by quantum field $$A_{\mu}(x)=\int \frac{d^3p}{(2\pi)^3}\frac{1}{\sqrt{2\omega_p}}\sum_{j=1}^2(\epsilon_{\mu}^{i}(p)a_{p,i}e^{-ipx}+\epsilon_{\mu}^{i*}(p)a_{p,i}^{\dagger}e^{ipx})$$ So whenever we have a photon somewhere we know for sure it has been created by the action of $a^{\dagger}$ on the vacuum $ |0\rangle$ so it is bound to be discrete however it is produced whether by action of $e^-,e^+,p^+$ or any other feasible process, strong statement.

Your example of photon production by the acceleration$*$ of $e^-$ appears in lot of phenomenon Bremsstrahlung, Cyclotron radiation, Synchrotron radiation. At the risk of oversimplification, all of these processes can be represented by

enter image description here

enter image description here

So you can see a photon is bound to be discrete because of our definition. In classical Electrodynamics, due to coarse-graining, we take photons to be a continuum or EM waves. They are getting bombarded at such a large number per unit time that we don't need to take the discreteness into consideration.

As for the discreteness of photons during the transition of electrons between orbits or band structure. They can only come into existence if the electrons do the required energy transition, ex. LED, hydrogen spectrum of bound electron since only have discrete energy to produce we are bound to get the discrete frequency.Hydrogen spectrum

But other times thermal emission/black body radiation the frequency of emitted photon is a continuum so only energy is discretized here.enter image description here

Takeaway: In the first case both energy and frequency are discretized while in the second case only energy is discretized so if you put a counter which records photon energy and frequency you're bound to get clicks in integers unless your intensity is very high (no need of QM) because of our definition of photon also for the former not only will the energy of individual photons be related to frequency but the frequency will come in steps while in latter photons will have their characteristic energy but the frequency will be in continum.

$*$ acceleration is not defined in QM.

aitfel
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You write:

Since the electrons oscillate regularly while transitioning between orbitals then why is the energy released in the form of packets and not continuously in the form of waves?

I think this is precisely the reason which led to quantum mechanics. If the electrons would emit radiation while heading for an orbital with less energy, you are viewing the process in a classical electromagnetic way. The electron would spiral down towards the nucleus of the atom while continuously emitting electromagnetic waves(Bremmstrahlung with increasing frequency) until it would smash into it.

Obviously, this is not the case. Atoms are stable configurations. The electrons in an atom can only reside in the orbitals of the atom and no (eigen)states in between (or in a normalized linear combination of them).
When an electron falls back to an orbital with lower energy, this doesn't proceed by the electron spiraling down to the lower energy level while emitting radiation. As said, what would the electron stop from falling further? It happens in an almost instantaneous event.
For example, the electron in a high energy orbital (in the associated eigen-orbital). It won't descend to a lower orbital in a continuous way while emitting continuous bremsstrahlung (that's increasing in frequency) but, for example, by emitting one, two, or more photons, which together have the energy difference between the two orbitals.
The photons are emitted as wavepackets with a range of frequencies, so they don't have a well-defined energy. But neither have the orbitals, as they are occupying a finite piece of space, so due to Heisenberg's uncertainty relations, there is an uncertainty in the electron's momentum too (and thus energy). So we are talking about mean values.

The bottom line: Electrons don't spiral down continuously towards the nucleus because in that case, atoms could not exist. And the world would look very different! Quantum mechanics came to the rescue.

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