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I'm sorry for this question but, I just don't get it. According to the electromagnetic field theory, electrons repel each other by exchanging photons. How do protons attract electrons, by photon exchange?

Waffle's Crazy Peanut
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Danielks
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    Try this first: How can [photons] be responsible for attractive forces? http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Quantum/virtual_particles.html. Also, look at http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/2250/what-is-the-difference-which-leads-to-attraction-in-ee-scattering-and-repulsio – Alfred Centauri Mar 24 '13 at 13:59
  • The idea that photon is a particle leaving and entering charged particle is no good. It would require a massive number of photons in each charged particle. In addition, since charged particles have mass this also means that using mass to move charged particles also leads to discharging of photons. In other words, gravitational interaction must supply charged particles with new photons. –  Jun 25 '16 at 17:10
  • maybe this answer of mine might help http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/189605/how-does-a-photon-mediate-both-electric-attraction-and-repulsion/189620#189620 – anna v Jun 25 '16 at 18:57
  • @annav I have my own model. I think it is better than Feymann diagram. I just don't know how to refine a few things because many astro physics experiments seem so fraudulent. –  Jun 25 '16 at 21:20
  • @InstructedA look up "virtual particles" . The names, "photon" in this case , are just place holders with the quantum numbers but not the mass. – anna v Jun 26 '16 at 03:08
  • @annav Please give me a decent reference link to your "virtual particles". I looked it up and found its wiki page to be very "unscientific", full of ill-defined poor concepts and terminology obfuscations. –  Jun 26 '16 at 04:19
  • @InstructedA https://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/particle-physics-basics/virtual-particles-what-are-they/ , http://www.mat.univie.ac.at/~neum/physfaq/topics/feynman.html . I have an answer here https://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/particle-physics-basics/virtual-particles-what-are-they/ – anna v Jun 26 '16 at 04:56
  • @annav I already anticipated you will pull this kind of perturbation of the field/surface/manifold out, but even that you still need to remedy the experimental results of photoelectric that increasing intensity of a light source does not cause the escape of the electron, changing the color of the light source does. Remember that if a virtual particle is just a disturbance, they can accumulate and thus change their color which is inconsistent with basic phenomenon of photoelectric. –  Jun 26 '16 at 05:05
  • @InstructedA virtual photons because they have a variable mass cannot add up the way you assume. Changing color on real photons changes the frequency and thus the probability of interacting with an energy level ofa real atom. – anna v Jun 26 '16 at 08:01
  • @annav If that is the case, then the gradual change in frequency will lead to a gradual number of escaping electrons. But experiment seems to indicate that the change is not gradual. The change is abrupt (discrete/particle characteristic). The following is more of a speculation and less rigorous add on (there are other models to remedy this though): The universe is homeomorphic to a multi-dimension sphere. Photons come out of a charged particle and go around in on the other side. If the sphere is less well-rounded, paths are different and the photons return differently. –  Jun 26 '16 at 10:29
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    @InstructedA current physics is based on the underlying quantum nature, the postulates of quantum mechanics and the relevant equations are a validated system that models the micro cosm of particles. There is no need for handwaving suppositions when a successful mathematical model exists. The very network on which we are communicating is utilizing this mathematical model in its hardware. – anna v Jun 26 '16 at 11:15
  • @annav I agree. There is no need for handwaving suppositions when we have a successful model for the concerning work. –  Jun 26 '16 at 13:39

3 Answers3

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ELECTRON-PROTON ATTRACTION: a simple, semi-classical analysis to avoid full scale QFT.

The exchange of the photon between the proton and the electron leads to attraction, only because the total energy of the electron is negative.

Let us consider the hydrogen atom for simplicity, and imagine the funnel-like shape of the electron energy. The total energy of the electron in the hydrogen atom at distance $r_0$ from the proton is

$E(r_0)=-\frac{e^2}{8\pi\epsilon_0 r_0}$.

If the distance $r_0$ is sufficiently short, then the electron will emit a photon which will be absorbed by the proton, and the amount of energy of the exchanged photon will be dictated by the uncertainty principle:

$\Delta E\Delta t=\hbar.$

But $\Delta t=\frac{r_0}{c}$ so that

$\Delta E r_0=\hbar c\rightarrow \Delta E= \frac{\hbar c}{r_0}$

So the new energy of the electron will be

$E_1=-\frac{e^2}{8\pi\epsilon_0 r_0}-\frac{\hbar c}{r_0}=-\frac{e^2+8\pi\epsilon_0\hbar c}{8\pi\epsilon_0r_0}$

or the equivalent amount of energy corresponding to some new position $r_1$

$-\frac{e^2}{8\pi\epsilon_0 r_1}=-\frac{e^2+8\pi\epsilon_0\hbar c}{8\pi\epsilon_0 r_0}$

from which we get $r_1$ in terms of $r_0$

$r_1=r_0\frac{e^2}{e^2+8\pi\epsilon_0\hbar c}<r_0$

Therefore the electron moves closer to the proton rather than farther from it (an attractive force.)

JKL
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    In non-bound states, the total energy of the electron is positive. Does your analysis indicate that the EM interaction would be repulsive in that case? – Dan Mar 27 '13 at 19:14
  • According to your picture, it seems the energy lost by the electron is transferred to the proton so the proton now has more energy with which to climb out of the potential well. I must be missing something. – Dan Piponi Mar 27 '13 at 19:33
  • @Dan The simple analysis I presented does not rediscover the wheel. It simply shows consistency of the two pictures. You can do the analysis for the Proton-positron case (repulsive "force") in a similar, but not identical way. – JKL Mar 27 '13 at 20:57
  • @DanPiponi When two particles echange energy (photons) their energy and momentum do change. You need to take into account that the exchange of virtual photons lasts a very short time, for the electron or proton to climb or tunnel through the potential well. The proton does recoil, but this recoil is very small and pulls the electron with it anyway. This is how hydrogen atoms can move about without getting ionized by the slightest impact. – JKL Mar 27 '13 at 21:09
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For all the people looking to know more about particle interactions, you could go to check Matt O'Dowd from PBS Space Time's excellent video about virtual particles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztFovwCaOik

frt132
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Photons aren't like billiard balls. A photon isn't a particle in the sense of a hard, massive bit of stuff, it's a "chunkyness" of the Electric and Magnetic fields. When we say protons and electrons are attractive because they exchange photons, we mean protons create EM fields, and electrons create EM fields that cancel out those created by the proton.

The fields themselves are exactly the same as the classical EM fields, the only exception is that they can only be made and cancelled out in chunks. The reason that photon exchange can be attractive is precisely the same reason classical electric fields can be attractive.

Dan
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