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Our professor told us that the Coulomb's law $F=k_e\frac{Qq}{r^2}$ includes more information than the Gauss's Law $\int\mathbf{E}\cdot\mathrm{d}\mathbf{S} = \frac{1}{\varepsilon_0}\sum q$ (sorry that the editor seems don't support the symbol \$\oiint\$) in electrostatics because the Coulomb's law implies the Coulomb force is the conservative force while the Gauss's Law doesn't. However I think the two laws are equivalent in maths, and they should have the same meaning in physics (only in electrostatics).

Qmechanic
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dcmpsr
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5 Answers5

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Technically he's right:

A force field that has zero curl is necessarily conservative. You could come up with a vector field that obey's Gauss' law but also has a non-zero curl, because the curl is basically ignored when taking the surface integral.

The laws aren't quite equivalent in math - Coulomb's law necessarily obey's Gauss' law but Gauss' law doesn't necessarily follow Coulomb's law (in reality it does, but in isolation the law doesn't require it).

Señor O
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  • Got it! Thank you! – dcmpsr Aug 16 '22 at 04:19
  • Does Gauss' law and Faraday's law without the presence of a changing magnetic field contain the same information as Coulomb's law? – Habouz Aug 18 '22 at 19:22
  • @Habouz almost.. Faraday's law says that the curl of E is will get a contribution from the changing B field, but it doesn't explicitly say the curl of E is only the changing B field. Basically all you need is something that tells you the curl of E is 0 for them to be equivalent. – Señor O Aug 19 '22 at 03:53
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I would like to add a complement to @SeñorO's answer. The non-equivalence between Coulomb's law and Gauss' law may sound surprising if one refers to the argument frequently used to show how Coulomb's law can be obtained from Gauss' law ( see this other question and the excellent @EmilioPisanty's answer ). Actually, in that "proof", the symmetry argument implicitly excludes non-zero curl solutions. However, it is a theorem (Helmholtz's theorem) that a vector field is uniquely determined by its divergence and curl (plus a few additional conditions about its possible discontinuities and the way it vanishes at infinity).

Edit after answering another related question.

Helmholtz's theorem is not a purely mathematical gadget. It can be restated as saying that, in general, the sources of a vector field ${\bf E}$ are a scalar field equal to $\nabla \cdot {\bf E}$ and a vector field equal to $\nabla \times {\bf E}$. While Coulomb's Law contains the information that $\nabla \times {\bf E} = 0$ and then that there is no vector source of the electrostatic field, Gauss' Law alone is not enough to exclude such a physical possibility.

  • "Uniquely determined by its divergence and curl", assuming the field vanishes at infinity. This is important when considering the homogenous wave equation solution in addition to the specific solution obtained by jefimenkos equations. – jensen paull Aug 16 '22 at 05:55
  • @jensenpaull Of course, there is the assumption on how the field vanishes at infinity and its possible discontinuities. I did not want to add too many details. However, you are making a good point. I'll modify my answer to add something in this direction. – GiorgioP-DoomsdayClockIsAt-90 Aug 16 '22 at 06:02
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Adding onto others. The derivation from gauss law to coulombs law usually requires you to assume that:

$$\vec{E} = E(r) \hat r$$

This is just saying that the distribution is spherically symetric, and has zero curl [you do this instinctively when saying E and da are parrallel for a spherical gaussian surface]

Coulombs law is a specific case of gauss law, where the curl is zero and the distribution is spherically symettric.

jensen paull
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  • In the second paragraph, I assume that you were meaning that the field (not the charge distribution) is spherically symmetric. Then, zero-curl is a consequence of the symmetry and not an additional property. – GiorgioP-DoomsdayClockIsAt-90 Aug 16 '22 at 06:09
  • Yes, I meant that a spherically symetric field implies zero curl and is a consequence of the field symmetry, and is not an additional prescribed condition. However I am also saying that a spherically symetric field also implies a spherically symmetric distribution. That is not to say that a spherically symmetric distribution must always have a spherically symetric field[as seen from the addition of a homogenous solution]. – jensen paull Aug 16 '22 at 06:46
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You don't need to introduce divergence and rotational to realize Gauss's law is not equivalent to Coulomb's law. The former is a scalar relationship (1 equation) while the later is vector relation (3 equations). It could be the three equations are not independent, but it is not the case and Coulomb's law contains more information than Gauss's law. As a mater of fact, Maxwell's equations are redundant, they somewhat repeat themselves. There is a formulation of electromagnetism in terms of normal variables that eliminates these redundancies. Gauss's law is not part of this framework.

Shaktyai
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Other answers have hinted at the following but not (IMO) made it really clear and explicit:

Coulomb's law can be derived, in full, from Gauss' law in electrostatics, with no other assumptions.

One can also derive the Gauss law from Coulomb's law. Hence the two are equivalent.

In order to derive Coulomb's law one sets up the question: what is the electric field of a point charge? By a point charge here we mean a charged entity of negligible physical size and which has no sense of direction (such as a spin). Therefore the situation has spherical symmetry about the location of the charge. It follows that the size of the electric field can only depend on radius, not angles in a spherical coordinate system centred on the charge. It also follows that the direction of the electric field must be radial. For, if it had a non-radial component then, by symmetry, that component would have to be independent of location throughout any given spherical shell. But this requirement is only met by a zero non-radial component. It is important to note that this fact is derived not assumed in this proof.

We have now established that $\bf E$ has the form ${\bf E} = E(r) \hat{\bf r}$. It remains to substitute this into Gauss' law, perform an integral over the volume of a sphere of radius $r$, convert one side to a surface integral, and hence obtain $E(r) = (4 \pi \epsilon_0 r^2)^{-1}$ in SI units.

I think the original statement from a professor, asserting that Coulomb's law contains information not contained in Gauss' law, is coming from a mathematical hunch that a statement about an integral (or about a divergence) will not in general describe a vector field as fully as a Green's function will. This is correct in general but the spherical symmetry makes the field of a point charge a special case, and it can be derived from the divergence with no further information. (One also also needs to assume the field is well-behaved, i.e. no infinite derivatives, away from the charge.)

Andrew Steane
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    You say "with no other assumptions", but then you make further assumptions (spherical symmetry of the solution). This assumptions boils down (in this particular case) to the requirement that the curl is zero. While Gauss law is still valid for a moving particle, coulombs law in general is not. I disagree with the assertion that both are equivalent. – Quantumwhisp Aug 16 '22 at 13:30
  • To use Gauss 'law you must calculate the electric flux on an orientable surface. Not all 3D surfaces are orientable and have two faces, and you would be hard pressed to calculate the electric field on a non orientable surface by using Gauss' law. – Shaktyai Aug 16 '22 at 14:27
  • If it were true that Coulomb's law can be derived from Gauss' law without any other assumption, there would be no room for the Heaviside–Feynman formula https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefimenko%27s_equations . The symmetry assumption is an additional hypothesis. One effect of which is the elimination of the rotational component of the field. – GiorgioP-DoomsdayClockIsAt-90 Aug 16 '22 at 17:28
  • @GiorgioP I claim that a symmetric source (the particle) must give an effect (the field) with that same symmetry (here invar. under rotations). Are you saying otherwise? – Andrew Steane Aug 16 '22 at 18:04
  • @Quantumwhisp the issue is whether the spherical sym of solution must hold, irrespective of the Maxwell Eqns. I claim that a symmetric source must give a field with that same symmetry. Are you saying otherwise? – Andrew Steane Aug 16 '22 at 18:05
  • @Shaktyai Once proceeds as follows. First derive Coulomb from Gauss, then derive whatever else you like, using Coulomb. – Andrew Steane Aug 16 '22 at 18:06
  • If you refer to the symmetry of the particle, it holds independently of its motion (but you know very well that the fields depend on it). If it refers to the field, it is an additional assumption. – GiorgioP-DoomsdayClockIsAt-90 Aug 16 '22 at 20:11
  • @GiorgioP "it is an additional assumption" logically implies "an isotropic source can in principle give rise to a non-isotropic field" and that is what I doubt. Surely that is a physical impossibility? – Andrew Steane Aug 16 '22 at 20:57
  • An isotropic source can give rise to an anisotropic field as soon as its motion breaks the spherical symmetry and fields depend on the motion. – GiorgioP-DoomsdayClockIsAt-90 Aug 16 '22 at 21:15
  • @GiorgioP well yes but we are talking about a static source (since we are talking about the derivation of Coulomb's law) – Andrew Steane Aug 16 '22 at 21:40
  • @AndrewSteane even if assume that we are talking about a static point charge, the argument that the "isotropic source alone should give rise to an isotropic solution" doesn't really hold. There are many occurences in nature where symmetries in equations don't imply symmetries in the solutions (spontaneous symmetry breaking comes to mind, for example). Of course we know that this isn't the case for the static electron. But the reason we know this is the "additional assumptions" that we make. – Quantumwhisp Aug 17 '22 at 11:40