-6

If I am in a high speed train, and I am sitting there, and I see a hummingbird flying $ 30 km/h $ relative to me towards the head of the train.

We all know, the scenario above is 100% possible by physics. I can measure it flying away at $ 30 km/h $.

However, by Galileo, we can't really tell what speed the train is going. No matter what speed the train is going, we can say it is going at $ 200 km/h $, or $ 600 km/h $, or close to the speed of light. It just depends on what the train is moving relative to.

So if I consider relative to a certain point in the universe, the train is going near the speed of light, let's say $ c - 20 km / h $ where $ c $ is the speed of light, and by the fact that the humming bird is moving faster than the train, then the hummingbird is going at a speed of, as @Dan suggested, using the velocity addition formula, $ v $, where $ v $ is getting closer to $ c $, but cannot exceed $ c $. For simplicity, let's say $ v $ is something like $ c - 2km/h $ or $ c - 3km/h $, just a speed that is greater than $ c - 20 km / h $ but less than $ c $.

So from my perspective, the hummingbird is $ 30 km/h $ faster than me, but by relativity, the hummingbird is no more than $ 20 km / h $ faster than me.

So doesn't this have a contradiction? What should be adjusted in the above statements?

2 Answers2

2

Relativity is fine! You have stumbled across the fact that velocities in special relativity don't add as in the Galilean case. Instead, we must use the velocity addition formula, which guarantees that velocities indeed never exceed $c$.

DanDan0101
  • 2,565
  • so if we use that velocity addition formula, then I am moving at the speed of light, and the hummingbird is moving at the speed of light, so there is no way that he hummingbird is flying past me to the front of train – nonopolarity Feb 16 '23 at 01:38
  • 2
    @nonopolarity Can you clarify in which reference frame the current confusion arises? Velocities always have to be given relative to a specified reference frame. – DanDan0101 Feb 16 '23 at 01:42
  • the reference frame is a point which I consider stationary in the universe and the solar system is move away from it at the speed of light (or that, but minus 25mph) – nonopolarity Feb 16 '23 at 02:11
0

You and the train cannot actually move at the speed of light. If you and the train are slightly slower than speed of light as viewed from the ground, the the entire train is slightly larger than zero length. The front of the train, the back of the train, you, and the hummingbird are almost at the same location (along the axis of the train's motion). The hummingbird moves quickly past you in your reference frame because the start and end positions are far apart. Because the train never gets this close to the speed of light, the above situation is a limit. When perhaps half the speed of light, the distances, lengths, and times as viewed from the ground compress so that your speed and the hummingbird's speed are much closer together from the ground. This is what leads to the velocity addition formula. Calculate $\frac{\Delta x'}{\Delta t'}=u'$ and $\frac{\Delta x}{\Delta t}=u$ with $v$ as the velocity of the primed system relative to the unprimed system.

  • you cannot say an object that has mass is moving at the speed of light here on this site... they will try to eliminate you... you need to say slightly slower than the speed of light in order to exist – nonopolarity Feb 17 '23 at 21:28
  • @nonopolarity You are correct. I have changed the above to consider a limit of very close to the speed of light. This would never occur because of the energy required. Still, one can imagine viewing the train from the frame of reference of a particle emitted by a supernova as it passes the Earth. As you recommend, this is slightly slower than the speed of light. Thank you for the advice. – Ken Mellendorf Feb 17 '23 at 21:44