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I cannot find the Russian phrases for these two stages of dating and am humbly asking for your help. I know that Russians say Маша встречается с Ваней (which literally means Masha regularly meets Vanya), but it is unclear to me as to which of the two stages is implied and what to call the other stage. Also, as a part of my question, how will a Russian man word his proposal to become exclusive to each other? What idiomatic phrase will he use?

UPDATE: My impression from the answer by Anixx and the comment by Shabunc is that many Russians do not really understand this English terminology, so let me try to explain. To put it simply, seeing each other is the stage in which you just go to coffee dates to see people. You are not committed to anyone in any respect in this stage. You just find someone on a dating website, go to a first date, go to a second date, but you are not a couple yet. You just see each other. You cannot become a gf and bf just from the very first moment you see each other. You are not a couple on your first date. It is not about sleeping around or, how Shabunc put it, "polyamorous relationships," but merely about trying to find a good match before really committing to be a true gf or bf. You have to see many people in order to find a good match. You can see different people concurrently. And it is only after you find your true soul mate and after you and that person decide to be a couple that the second stage begins - being exclusive to each other. Just shoot through the following articles to better understand what I am talking about: link1, link2, link3.

Mitsuko
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  • you make it sound like this two layered approach (let's see each other and let's see each other exclusively) is a common thing in Japan, or, say West. But well, it's not to my knowledge. While polyamorous relationships do exist still they are far less popular to treat them as a default option. – shabunc Feb 16 '20 at 10:44
  • @shabunc : Please kindly read my update, which addresses your confusion. – Mitsuko Feb 18 '20 at 06:52
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    thank you for this clarification! – shabunc Feb 18 '20 at 06:54
  • As I said in my answer, in Russian it is implied from the first date that the man wants the woman for sex. There are no dates just for chat etc. The man is also required to pay for all from the beginning (no woman will meet you if you do not pay). You can suggest to be a girlfriend and a boyfriend to each other explicitly (there is no better way to articulate this) but it would be looking weird (as if you were sitting in a restaurant, already paid for the food and humbly asked if it is possible to eat) and if done by a man this would be turned down and the man would be seen as an idiot. – Anixx Feb 18 '20 at 09:12
  • Russian culture implies the man should seduce woman, not ask for permission. And understand what she wants without words. Asking is seen as nerdy weakness and women are required to turn down all explicit proposals. If the man asks, he is inconfident, boring, unknows women and unromantic. – Anixx Feb 18 '20 at 09:23
  • By the way, in Russian "встречаться" (to meet/date) with each other already implies the two people are a couple (regardless of whether they have sex). – Anixx Feb 18 '20 at 09:25
  • @Anixx : >> in Russian it is implied from the first date that the man wants the woman for sex. There are no dates just for chat << Don't Russian men look for wife material? Don't they think in terms of long-term goals? Do they really want sex right here and now, even with a girl they have never seen before and know nothing about? And what will Russian men think about a girl who agrees to have sex on a first date? – Mitsuko Feb 19 '20 at 06:23
  • "Do they really want sex right here and now" - I think the most men do want this, not only Russian. "Don't Russian men look for wife material" - I cannot say for all, but in general, no. Marriage is extremely detrimental to men in Russia and does not bring any benefits, so the most men wan to get sex or relationship without marriage. The women usually use extortion with pregnancy to get married. – Anixx Feb 19 '20 at 06:28
  • "And what will Russian men think about a girl who agrees to have sex on a first date" - Traditionally the girl should give sex no later than on the 3rd date but I never was patient enough for this. I cannot say for all, but the most will think either the girl did not like them or the girl is динамщица. She продинамила the man. Which means to eat and otherwise entertain herself for the man's expense without giving sex. There are a lot of such women in Russia and they even brag about their achievements on the internet. – Anixx Feb 19 '20 at 06:32
  • @Anixx : >> Marriage is extremely detrimental to men in Russia << :-o What do you mean by that? How is it detrimental? Are Russian wives that bad? – Mitsuko Feb 19 '20 at 06:33
  • @Mitsuko Russian wives are generally bad, yes. But the main problem is law and court practice. A lot of women marry just to divorce and the others extort benefits from their husbands all their life by treats of divorce. In Russian law the woman is the head of the family, she gains all the benefits and in case of divorce she gets the children with whom the father has virtually no right to interact with. There is no shared custody and the man has to pay huge child support, even if he has no income (which makes a lot of men homeless). – Anixx Feb 19 '20 at 06:38
  • @Anixx : >> Which means to eat and otherwise entertain herself for the man's expense without giving sex. There are a lot of such women in Russia and they even brag about their achievements on the internet << Really? What's in it for them? What's the point of wasting time with a man they dislike and do not consider to be husband material? It is so hard to believe that such pervert women exist and are many in Russia. Could you give some links to show me how they boast about their "achievements"? – Mitsuko Feb 19 '20 at 06:43
  • "What's the point of wasting time with a man they dislike and do not consider to be husband material" - don't ask me, I do not know. But there are types that just go for a date each day with a random man so to eat in a restaurant, and the more skilled ones even compell men to pay for a vacation trip with a hope for sex and do not give him sex when on vacation. In Russian taking such benefits from a лох is called раскрутить на бабки. – Anixx Feb 19 '20 at 06:49
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    Here is an online manual for women on how to динамить https://tsn.ua/ru/lady/authors/rukovodstvo-dlya-nachinayuschey-dinamschicy.html Here is another one: https://psy.wikireading.ru/122909 There are many books on the topic as well. These are some materials on how to combat them: https://www.liveinternet.ru/community/for_men_only/post217144207/ , http://wio.ru/fm/fm6-06.htm – Anixx Feb 19 '20 at 06:56

  • There is no shared custody and the man has to pay huge child support, even if he has no income (which makes a lot of men homeless) << Really? You are turning my world upside down. I have heard that the Russian alimony law is among the mildest in the world: After a divorce and dividing everything earned in the period of a marriage, a Russian man does not have to pay any maintenance to his wife! He just has to pay a quarter of his legal income as a child support, but no more than a third of his legal income to maintain all his children.

     – Mitsuko Feb 19 '20 at 07:00
  • In many countries, a man has to maintain his ex-wife even if they do not have any children. There is some fairness in having to maintain an ex-wife: a wife often sacrifices her career in the period of her marriage and, as a consequence, struggles financially after a divorce. So I thought that the Russian law is highly favorable for males and disadvantageous for females! – Mitsuko Feb 19 '20 at 07:00
  • Furthermore, I recently read a Russian article saying that it is no longer a criminal offence for a man to physically beat his wife. Putin introduced a corresponding change in the law recently. So my impression was that the Russian law in general is highly advantageous for males and that Russia is a country of machism, with a caudillo presiding in the Kremlin. – Mitsuko Feb 19 '20 at 07:05
  • Women always can get money from men. They even have a special organ for that (humans is the only mammal with поощрительное спаривание). 80% of homeless in Russia are men. If the men are forced into pseudo-"marriage" without sex with their ex-wives, then the women have no need for sex and have a lot of incentive for divorce. – Anixx Feb 19 '20 at 07:05
  • @Mitsuko 95% of the victims of violence are men (outside of family), and 3/4 of the people killed in domestic violence are men as well. Beating a man is usually not a crime in Russia. I was assaulted about once in 1.5 months when I lived in Russia. On the other hand, any violence against women is usually harshly prosecuted. This is semi-official, even though not in the law. The law you are referring to indeed was passed, but it was both men and women who demanded de-criminalization of domestic violence, mainly because the police was forging cases against parents who slapped their kids. – Anixx Feb 19 '20 at 07:11
  • But now another law on domestic violence was passed under pressure from feminists: a woman can demand the man evicted from the place they live together by the police, even without a court decision and even if the property belongs to him. It is widely viewed by the observers that this new law will be used by women to seize properties: a kid has the right to live in the father's flat after divorce, the mother has right to live with the kid, and the father can be expelled under the pretext of domestic violence. – Anixx Feb 19 '20 at 07:20
  • "He just has to pay a quarter of his legal income as a child support, but no more than a third of his legal income to maintain all his children" - no more than 70% by law, but the court also can rule that the man has to pay fixed sum as a percent of mean income in the region. Even if the man has no income. And the new law since this year demands the man to also pay for home rent for the mother of his children. De-facto, it is forced marriage where the men are forced to support the family without having anything in return. – Anixx Feb 19 '20 at 07:29
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    While you're still looking and before you've decided to be with someone, you can't really say that you're seeing someone. Because you're meeting many people. You'd just say you're available/looking for a relationship, you're not seeing anyone in particular. Once you say you're seeing someone, exclusivity is usually implied in normal relationships. – Curiosity Feb 20 '20 at 04:34
  • @Anixx : I see now that the dating culture in Russia is very special. Thanks a lot for opening my eyes on that. I've just found many materials on the Internet confirming your words. The only thing I was unable to find is that dynamo girls openly boast on the Internet about their achievements. Could you give me some links to texts written by dynamo girls about particular dates with specific men? I am really curious and will probably write an essay on that topic for my Russian classes. – Mitsuko Feb 20 '20 at 05:48
  • @Curiosity : >> Once you say you're seeing someone, exclusivity is usually implied in normal relationships << Not in the USA. If you see someone, you just literally see her/him. You literally see him/her often, and that's it. You hang out together, have coffee dates, etc. It is the very initial stage, and this stage is skipped if you already know the person well (e.g., if she/he is your fellow student), but you cannot instantly start a relationship with someone you have never seen or heard about before. You need to see him/her for a while. – Mitsuko Feb 20 '20 at 05:56
  • @Curiosity : In my country (Japan), things are different, but it is a whole different story. In short, you generally have to explicitly "confess" your feelings verbally in order to start a relationship. Unless you do so, you are treated just as a fellow student, an ordinary customer, an officemate, a neighbor, or just as a good acquaintance, no matter what indirect signs or hints about your feelings you make. Before you make a "confession," you are in the first stage in American terms (seeing each other) - e.g., you can have friendly chit chats from time to time. – Mitsuko Feb 20 '20 at 06:06
  • @Curiosity : By the way, the Russian and Japanese dating cultures have something in common: similar to Japanese and unlike Americans, Russians used to make признание в любви. Or is this tradition outdated in Russia already? – Mitsuko Feb 20 '20 at 06:11
  • @Mitsuko In Russia встречаться is an idiom meaning romantic relationship. It does not mean exclusive relationship though, because a man or a woman can встречаться with multiple people at the same time, but this is considered somewhat immoral. Признание в любви - yes, I would say it is outdated, while some types can do it, the girls usually would look at you as on an idiot and you drop your value in her eyes instantly. I will look for links of the type you requested. If you want some material for vocabulary, extortion of marriage using pregnancy is called взять на пузо. – Anixx Feb 20 '20 at 07:29
  • Russian women do more than 200 thousand abortions a year (I think, leading in the world), and this is not because they do not know how to use contraceptives but because they hope to get married using extortion. When failed, they often do abortions. I and the most guys I know would abandon any relationship with a girl one spotted any desire or hint that she wants to marry. – Anixx Feb 20 '20 at 07:46
  • This may be useful: https://newizv.ru/news/society/23-06-2019/sotsiologi-kazhdaya-tretya-zhenschina-lyubit-hodit-na-obnadezhku – Anixx Feb 20 '20 at 08:03

3 Answers3

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Where from did you get the idea that here should be two stages? Russian does not distinguish the two.

You can say Masha meets Vanya or Masha meets only Vanya. You also can say Masha is a girlfriend (девушка) of Vanya.

Also, as a part of my question, how will a Russian man word his proposal to become exclusive to each other? What idiomatic phrase will he use?

There is no such thing of being exclusive. It is implied the man wants his girlfriend to be exclusive to him from the beginning. So, there is no reason to articulate this.

Also, one important moment, in Russian culture explicit suggestions from a man are frowned upon and look like he has no skills to express the same implicitly.

Semantically one can say "будь моей девушкой" but this suggestion would be most likely turned down. The man would look like an unskilled, unromantic idiot. Similarly, suggesting explicitly sex is not welcome. Russian culture proclaims this should happen "by itself", "automatically", not due to some agreement.

Russian culture requires a woman to turn down any explicit proposal. People usually get laid after touching each other, not after negotiation. In this light it is funny that Ukraine recently adopted a law that declares any sex without verbal agreement a rape: in this way they declared virtually all men rapists, because Ukrainian culture has similar attitude to explicit proposals as Russian. Yes, you can ask "may I..." but this would be viewed as a sign of weakness, inconfidence, and you most likely would receive verbal refusal.

Anixx
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  • Thanks a lot for such an interesting description of the peculiarities of dating in Russia, but please have a look at my update. I guess you somewhat misinterpreted the two stages I am asking about. By the way, in my country you generally have to explicitly "confess" your feelings in order to move forward. – Mitsuko Feb 18 '20 at 07:01
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    The two phases are "Они встречаются"/"They are seeing each other" and "У них все серьезно"/"Their relationship is a serious one". – Alexander Feb 18 '20 at 19:51
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In Russian, "встречается" in terms of relationship means both stages of dating, but usually it means "is someone's gf/bf", like "Кристина встречается с Игорем"/"Kristina is Igor's girlfriend".

There are no clear separation between the dating stages in Russian, and one of the most simplest ways to imply the first stage is to use "ходит на свидания с"/"dates X"

To ask someone out, you can say something like "Давай куда-нибудь сходим?"/"Let's go somewhere?" or "Хочешь куда-нибудь сходить?"/"Do you want to go somewhere?"

Belkano
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Since Russian has genders, most of such phrases are gender-specific and it is hard to put it in the infinitive form. 'Be my only one' is Будь моей единственной when said to a woman and Будь моим единственным when said to a man, still it sounds somehow bookish or old-fashioned. Usually, baser phrases are used as proposal to date:

  • Давай встречаться?
  • Давай будем вместе?
  • Давай станем друг другу больше, чем просто друзьями?
  • Будешь моей девушкой? (to a woman)
  • Будешь моим парнем? (to a man)
  • Ты станешь моей девушкой? / моим парнем?
  • Я хочу предложить тебе встречаться. Ты согласна? / согласен?
  • Я хочу, чтобы ты была / был со мной.

These are the standard phrases.

Yellow Sky
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    imho while these phrases are Ok, it's not typical and even awkward to say/hear them in the practice of dating. – Alexander Feb 18 '20 at 19:50
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    @Alexander : So what will you say to a girl if you want her to be your gf? – Mitsuko Feb 19 '20 at 06:05
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    @Mitsuko - a lot of affectionate things, but never a direct request. The phrases above are suitable for a situation when emergent couple is not sure where the relationship would go, and one of the partners has to say this thing out loud. But normally in that situation that partner would be pledging his/her undying love rather than making a "possessive" request. – Alexander Feb 19 '20 at 17:24