Formatted flash memory in two different Windows have different free space?

Question

I have a 4G Silicon-Power flash memory. When I format it in Windows-7, 47 MByte will remain as used space :

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But when I format it in Windows-8, 18 MByte will remain as used space :

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Note : In both windows I select File System = NTFS and Allocation Unit size = 4096

What is the difference?

Update :

Windows-7 Professional- 64 bit - Version 6.1 Service pack 1

C:\>fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo j:
NTFS Volume Serial Number :       0x02764432764428ad
Version :                         3.1
Number Sectors :                  0x000000000078077f
Total Clusters :                  0x00000000000f00ef
Free Clusters  :                  0x00000000000ed5de
Total Reserved :                  0x0000000000000000
Bytes Per Sector  :               512
Bytes Per Cluster :               4096
Bytes Per FileRecord Segment    : 1024
Clusters Per FileRecord Segment : 0
Mft Valid Data Length :           0x0000000000040000
Mft Start Lcn  :                  0x0000000000040000
Mft2 Start Lcn :                  0x0000000000000002
Mft Zone Start :                  0x0000000000040000
Mft Zone End   :                  0x000000000004c820
RM Identifier:        94E3CDFA-2ADD-11E4-B3D3-005056C00001

.

C:\>defrag /a /h /u /v j:
Microsoft Disk Defragmenter
Copyright (c) 2007 Microsoft Corp.

Invoking analysis on GHASEMI (J:)...

        Analysis:  100% complete.

The operation completed successfully.

Post Defragmentation Report:

        Volume Information:
                Volume size                 = 3.75 GB
                Cluster size                = 4 KB
                Used space                  = 43.06 MB
                Free space                  = 3.70 GB

        Fragmentation:
                Total fragmented space      = 0%
                Average fragments per file  = 1.10

                Movable files and folders   = 23
                Unmovable files and folders = 12

        Files:
                Fragmented files            = 0
                Total file fragments        = 0

        Folders:
                Total folders               = 11
                Fragmented folders          = 0
                Total folder fragments      = 0

        Free space:
                Free space count            = 4
                Average free space size     = 899.49 MB
                Largest free space size     = 2.55 GB

        Master File Table (MFT):
                MFT size                    = 256.00 KB
                MFT record count            = 255
                MFT usage                   = 100%
                Total MFT fragments         = 2

        Note: File fragments larger than 64MB are not included in the fragmentat
ion statistics.

        You do not need to defragment this volume.

C:\>

untfs.dll version : 6.1.7601.17514 ntfs.sys version : 6.1.7601.18127

Windows 8.1 Version 6.3 :

C:\>fsut fsinfo ntfsinfo E:
'fsut' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.

C:\>fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo E:
NTFS Volume Serial Number :       0xbc18035618030ed8
NTFS Version   :                  3.1
LFS Version    :                  1.1
Number Sectors :                  0x000000000078077f
Total Clusters :                  0x00000000000f00ef
Free Clusters  :                  0x00000000000ef2c7
Total Reserved :                  0x0000000000000000
Bytes Per Sector  :               512
Bytes Per Physical Sector :       512
Bytes Per Cluster :               4096
Bytes Per FileRecord Segment    : 1024
Clusters Per FileRecord Segment : 0
Mft Valid Data Length :           0x0000000000040000
Mft Start Lcn  :                  0x0000000000040000
Mft2 Start Lcn :                  0x0000000000000002
Mft Zone Start :                  0x0000000000040000
Mft Zone End   :                  0x000000000004c820
Resource Manager Identifier :     DC8269B6-2A42-11E4-BE90-0021CCD87AAC

.

C:\>defrag /a /h /u /v E:
Microsoft Drive Optimizer
Copyright (c) 2013 Microsoft Corp.

Invoking analysis on GHASEMI (E:)...

        Analysis:  100% complete.

The operation completed successfully.

Post Defragmentation Report:

        Volume Information:
                Volume size                 = 3.75 GB
                Cluster size                = 4 KB
                Used space                  = 14.15 MB
                Free space                  = 3.73 GB

        Fragmentation:
                Total fragmented space      = 0%
                Average fragments per file  = 1.11

                Movable files and folders   = 19
                Unmovable files and folders = 4

        Files:
                Fragmented files            = 2
                Total file fragments        = 2

        Folders:
                Total folders               = 1
                Fragmented folders          = 0
                Total folder fragments      = 0

        Free space:
                Free space count            = 4
                Average free space size     = 906.72 MB
                Largest free space size     = 2.55 GB

        Master File Table (MFT):
                MFT size                    = 256.00 KB
                MFT record count            = 255
                MFT usage                   = 100%
                Total MFT fragments         = 1

        Note: File fragments larger than 64MB are not included in the fragmentat
ion statistics.

        You do not need to defragment this volume.

C:\>

untfs.dll version : 6.3.9600.17031

ntfs.sys versio : 6.3.9600.17055

You can list the contents of the drive and then unhide hidden files. I am pretty sure you will discover at least one file there. Otherwise it has to the size of the MFT itself is different. Of course I actually suspect it has something to do with the fact the size of the disk itself is seperate. If you format with Windows 7 does Windows 8 report the same size? The actual size of the disk is still the same — Ramhound, Aug 22 '14 at 14:56
@Ramhound ,I didn't understand your answer. I formatted in both Windows-7 AND Windows-8 with FileSystem = NTFS and AllocationUnitSize = 4096. There is no hidden file! So why UsedSpace are different in this two case?! — TheGoodUser, Aug 22 '14 at 15:09
You didn't answer my question. Format the disk on Windows 7...Is the reported size the same when you plug it into the Windows 8 machine? — Ramhound, Aug 22 '14 at 15:10
@Ramhound I format it in Windows-7. In windows-7 I have 47 MB used-space. Unplug it form windows-7 system and Plug it to Windows-8 system.I Took a look at properties. It has 47 MB used space again.I format it in Windows-8. I took a look at properties. It has 18.1 MB used space. I unplug it again and plug it to a third computer with Windows-8.1 and format it. It has 20.7 used space! I unplug it and plug to the first computer with Windows-7, I took a look at properties, It has 20.7 MB used space. I format it again, And It has finally 47 MB used space again! :)) — TheGoodUser, Aug 22 '14 at 16:02
I would place money on the MFT header being different or different versions of NTFS being used — Ramhound, Aug 22 '14 at 22:51
Format the flash drive using Windows 7, open a command prompt as administrator, and run the following command after replacing X: with the correct letter: fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo X: & defrag /a /h /u /v X: Copy the full command output and save it somewhere. For reference, take note of the file version reported for untfs.dll and ntfs.sys, which can be usually found in C:\Windows\System32 and C:\Windows\System32\drivers, respectively. Then repeat the same steps using Windows 8 and Windows 8.1. When done, post here the information you gathered. — and31415, Aug 23 '14 at 08:23
@TheGoodUser-Sp I had a question about the changes to NTFS in Windows 8. One change visible in your data is that LFS 1.1 has been added. If you update to Windows Blue you might see usage change again as LFS is now at version 2.0. Edit: Sorry, I see you are on Windows 8.1 so I guess 2.0 came out in the latest round of giant updates. — Louis Waweru, Aug 23 '14 at 17:11
@and31415 Thank you for your information. I updated the question. Note that when I connect my flash memory to different computer, its inside files disappear sometimes, while Its used space indicate that my files are there! (they are not hide and not changes to system files!) . and when I use check disk error, they appear. (sometimes with errors) — TheGoodUser, Aug 23 '14 at 17:12
@Louis Thanks for the link. I'll read it. But my problem is not only for Windows 7 and Windows 8! I have this problem between different versions of Windows 7 too! even, I have different used space after format between two computer with a single version of windows 7 prifesional!!! — TheGoodUser, Aug 23 '14 at 17:15
Could it be a new kind of virus that hide some data or hide itself inside this part of flash memories? — TheGoodUser, Aug 23 '14 at 17:17
@TheGoodUser-Sp Well since it looks like changes can occur across the same versions of Windows (LFS 1.1 -> 2.0 in Windows 8.1), then I wouldn't be surprised if other changes happened in Windows 7. — Louis Waweru, Aug 23 '14 at 17:18
@Louis And what If changes happens in a single computer in two different day?! Last day I format it and after format it had 47 MB used space, And today it has 81 MB used space after format!!! — TheGoodUser, Aug 23 '14 at 17:21
@TheGoodUser-Sp Oh, well I misunderstood. I thought you were asking why different versions of Windows format the same drive with different sizes (which I don't even know is the case; I'm your upvote!). — Louis Waweru, Aug 23 '14 at 17:22

Maxx Daymon · Accepted Answer · 2014-08-23T19:51:10.900

NTFS is a journaling filesystem. The NTFS system metafile that represents the metadata journal is named $LogFile. As part of the overall changes to NTFS in Windows 8, the default size for this file has changed in Windows 8.

To find out what the default log size is for a given drive "X", you can use CHKDSK with the bare /L parameter:

Default log size for a 16GB USB flash drive in Windows 7:

C:\>chkdsk X: /L
The type of the file system is NTFS.
The current log file size is 65536 KB.
The default log file size for this volume is 65536 KB.

Default log size for a 16GB USB flash drive in Windows 8.1:

C:\>chkdsk X: /L
The type of the file system is NTFS.
The current log file size is 65536 KB.
The default log file size for this volume is 23136 KB.

If you have formatted the drive in a previous operating system as seen above, you can use CHKDSK to query the default log size for Windows 8, then use CHKDSK again to set the log to the new default size. In this case, this drive was formatted under Windows 7 and has the default log size of 65536KB. Windows 8.1 would have set the size to 23136 (as determined by CHKDSK /L), so it can be adjusted down with the following command:

CHKDSK X: /L:23136

After a moment, the log will be resized and your free/allocated space should match as if the drive were formatted natively under Windows 8.1.

Allocation Report

Generally, if you would like detailed information on volume usage, you can use the volume allocationreport function of fsutil — this will give you a detailed breakdown of the space used by NTFS system files (as well as all other files, including compression, encryption, and streams):

C:\>fsutil volume allocationreport x:

Allocation report:
Total clusters              : 3907839 (16006508544 bytes)
Free clusters               : 3895093 (15954300928 bytes)
Reserved clusters           : 0 (0 bytes)
Total allocated             : 52207616 bytes

The allocation is split between:
System files                : Count: 27. Total allocated: 52207616 bytes.
    $Mft                    : File ID 0x0001000000000000. Total allocated: 270336 bytes.
    $MftMirr                : File ID 0x0001000000000001. Total allocated: 4096 bytes.
    $LogFile                : File ID 0x0002000000000002. Total allocated: 23691264 bytes.
    $Volume                 : File ID 0x0003000000000003. Total allocated: 0 bytes.
    $AttrDef                : File ID 0x0004000000000004. Total allocated: 4096 bytes.
    Root folder             : File ID 0x0005000000000005. Total allocated: 4096 bytes.
    $Bitmap                 : File ID 0x0006000000000006. Total allocated: 491520 bytes.
    $Boot                   : File ID 0x0007000000000007. Total allocated: 8192 bytes.
    $BadClus                : File ID 0x0008000000000008. Total allocated: 0 bytes.
    $Secure                 : File ID 0x0009000000000009. Total allocated: 274432 bytes.
    $UpCase                 : File ID 0x000a00000000000a. Total allocated: 131072 bytes.
    $Extend                 : File ID 0x000b00000000000b. Total allocated: 0 bytes.
    $ObjId                  : File ID 0x0001000000000019. Total allocated: 0 bytes.
    $Quota                  : File ID 0x0001000000000018. Total allocated: 0 bytes.
    $Reparse                : File ID 0x000100000000001a. Total allocated: 0 bytes.
    $RmMetadata             : File ID 0x000100000000001b. Total allocated: 0 bytes.
    $Repair                 : File ID 0x000100000000001c. Total allocated: 9437184 bytes.
    $Txf                    : File ID 0x000100000000001e. Total allocated: 0 bytes.
    $TxfLog                 : File ID 0x000100000000001d. Total allocated: 0 bytes.
    $Tops                   : File ID 0x000100000000001f. Total allocated: 1048576 bytes.
    $TxfLog.blf             : File ID 0x0001000000000020. Total allocated: 65536 bytes.
    Other system files      : Count: 4. Total allocated: 0 bytes.

Formatted flash memory in two different Windows have different free space?

1 Answers1

Allocation Report