How do native German speakers usually express skepticism (using even) about a premise?

Question

In English when we express skepticism about a premise we frequently use a phrase that starts with the word "even". For example:

Joe: Do you know the band named Rammstein?

Dietrich: Everyone in Germany loves Rammstein?

Joe: Really? Even your grandparents?

Here Joe is expressing skepticism that people who are much older than Dietrich are familiar with the industrial-metal/nu-metal band Rammstein.

Or another example:

Paul: I love everything about my new job!

Angela: Even the 1 hour drive in rush hour traffic every morning?

Angela has heard Paul express angrily on more than one occasion frustration with his long commute at the new job, and is using a phrase beginning with "even" to remind him that this contradicts his statement.

So what phrase do Germans most commonly use to express skepticism or doubt in a premise, when replying to the person that made that statement?

Why do foreigners always think that Rammstein is a popular band in Germany? — elzell, Jul 09 '19 at 11:49
@elzell Probably because it is the only German band they can identify as such. The fact that their stadium tour in 2018 was so successful that it got a second iteration for 2019 which has sold out in two hours flat as well could also play a role in this perception. — zovits, Jul 09 '19 at 12:06
This question shows that many concepts of communication are not based on the language itself. A literal translation carries the same meaning in the mentioned examples. They are examples of either rhethorical questions or sarcasm. — Ian, Jul 10 '19 at 06:55
There was a documentation about Kraftwerk, very very popular in the USA, and when they did a concert everyone was totally surprised what these four elderly Germans were doing on the stage. — gnasher729, Jul 12 '19 at 11:38

πάντα ῥεῖ · Accepted Answer · 2019-07-08T17:02:17.830

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It's just the same as in English language. Most of the time a rethorical question is asked like in your examples.

Even would be translated simply as auch [wenn] or (with a bit stronger emphasis) sogar [wenn], or selbst [wenn].

For your examples:

Joe: Kennst Du die Band Rammstein?

<p>Dietrich: Jedermann in Deutschland liebt Rammstein?</p>

<p>Joe: Wirklich? <strong>Auch</strong> Deine Grosseltern?</p>

Paul: Ich liebe Alles an meinem neuen Job!
<p>Angela: <strong>Auch</strong> die Stunde jeden Morgen im Berufsverkehr?</p>

Or with the slightly stronger emphasis as mentioned:

Joe: Kennst Du die Band Rammstein?

<p>Dietrich: Jedermann in Deutschland liebt Rammstein?</p>

<p>Joe: Wirklich? <strong>Sogar</strong>/<strong>Selbst</strong> Deine Grosseltern?</p>

Paul: Ich liebe Alles an meinem neuen Job!

<p>Angela: <strong>Sogar</strong>/<strong>Selbst</strong> die Stunde jeden Morgen im Berufsverkehr?</p>

edited Jul 08 '19 at 17:02

answered Jul 08 '19 at 16:38

πάντα ῥεῖ

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You could also mention selbst. – Carsten S Jul 08 '19 at 16:58
@CarstenS That's a great finding! Selbst is a synonym as well. I'll try to incorporate that. – πάντα ῥεῖ Jul 08 '19 at 17:00
@CarstenS Funny enough, first hit at dict.leo.org :-). – πάντα ῥεῖ Jul 08 '19 at 17:07
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@CarstenS Funny you should mention that. It reminds me of the German idiom "Auch ein blindes Huhn findet mal ein Korn", which I believe translates to "Even a blind chicken can find the grain". I think I'm like most novice German learners who at first think "auch" just means "also (English)", and find out only later that it actually also carries the "even" semantic interpretation as I did in asking this question. – Robert Oschler Jul 10 '19 at 02:54
What's the significance of [wenn] in the answer? – Robert Monfera Jul 10 '19 at 10:30
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@RobertMonfera: You can also have the analogue construction to English "even if ..." in German: "Selbst, wenn...". – cbeleites unhappy with SX Jul 10 '19 at 11:09

score 10 · Answer 2 · answered Jul 08 '19 at 17:40

If you want to express a stronger degree of disbelief than with sogar or auch, you could say:

Joe: Wirklich? Deine Eltern etwa auch?

In any case, the expressed degree of your scepticism depends at least as much on the right intonation as on the choice of words..

score 5 · Answer 3 · answered Jul 08 '19 at 16:45

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In that context I would translate "even" by "sogar". For example

Joe: Wirklich? Sogar Deine Großeltern?

answered Jul 08 '19 at 16:45

Paul Frost

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Auch almost fits equally well. – πάντα ῥεῖ Jul 08 '19 at 16:48
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@πάνταῥεῖ Certainly "auch" can be auch used. But I think "sogar" is stronger and better expresses skepticism. See for example https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/sogar. – Paul Frost Jul 08 '19 at 16:54
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I mentioned in my answer that sogar expresses a stronger emphasis. In colloquial usage auch will be more frequently used from my experience. – πάντα ῥεῖ Jul 08 '19 at 16:56

score 3 · Answer 4 · edited Jul 10 '19 at 12:23

In addition to the mentioned "wirklich?", which is just the literal translation of "really?", we also have the following phrases:

Echt? (real, genuinely)
Ach was? (not really translatable, indicates a stronger disbelief)
Kann nicht sein! ("can't be")
Ach komm! (roughly "come on!")
Neee! (very colloquial form of nein "no", comically lengthened)
Wenn Du das sagst ("if you say so")

and probably a lot more.

How do native German speakers usually express skepticism (using even) about a premise?

4 Answers4